Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

Sunday night, I referenced the possibility that Florida might win Saturday and still finish behind Texas in next week's BCS standings because of the Longhorns' huge lead in the computer polls, setting up an Oklahoma-Texas mythical championship rematch if the Sooners beat Missouri. This fell into the category of "unlikely but interesting" then, and after reading an assessment in my inbox today from Zach Rosenfield of the stat site AccuScore, it seems even more unlikely -- but no less interesting, by Zach's account:

I actually have access to the BCS spread sheet and have been able to plug in multiple scenarios. Texas will not be able to hold off Florida on the computers alone. But their margin in the computer section of the polls means that this is going to get interesting and will come right down to it.

It breaks down as follows. Oklahoma and Alabama win and they are in. That much we know. But here is how Florida can get left out. If OU wins big and Florida struggles, then it gets murky. A big win by OU coupled with Florida struggling could give OU a overwhelming majority of No. 1 votes and could move Texas up to No. 2, or in some cases, No. 1. It is only a matter of time until Mack Brown shifts the discussion to quality losses: UT in the last minute on the road and UF losing at home to Ole Miss. Whatever it takes to creep into the voters minds.

If Texas stabilizes in the human polls, then it gets interesting. Particularly because the only way UT can stabilize is if Florida struggles. If Florida wins big, then the UF will get a bunch of first place votes and be in. But if the Gators struggle, the votes get divided and it gets murky. Very murky.

A Florida win will in all probability increase its computer score from .82 to .88
The magic number is .944 for the Gators. Florida needs to average .944 between the Harris and Coaches Poll to make up the computer defecit. That means they need to go from 2619 points in the Harris to 2669. In the Coaches, they need to go from 1385 to 1439.

To put those numbers in perspective and roughly estimate how many points Florida can expect to pick up for beating Alabama, we can compare some recent historical precedents for other teams making major one-week moves.

There weren't many car-crash moments from 2002-2005, when the teams at the top of the standings tended to get there and stay there, but both Florida and LSU in 2006 and 2007 made the jump Florida is trying to make again Saturday by winning in the SEC Championship, and just to add more data points and get a sense of how the poll has seized and shook at times this year, I've added the point totals for each of the three Big 12 South frontrunners for the weeks before and after their big wins over a previously undefeated rival (as you know, that's over No. 1 Oklahoma for Texas, over No. 1 Texas for Texas Tech and over No. 2 Texas Tech for Oklahoma). According to each of the human polls and the average of the BCS computers (not the final BCS score itself, but the computer score), this is what a big jump in the polls looks like, by the numbers:

Going back to Zach's estimates, Florida needs to pick up 50 points in the Harris and 54 points from the Coaches, both well, well below not only the average gains from big wins the last three years, but well below even the lowest gains on the chart. If all the Gators are looking to do is to pick up roughly 50 points per poll, recent history suggests they have no reason to worried about style or running it up. Unless voters launch a full-fledged, conscientious campaign in Texas' favor -- the odds of either poll coordinating anything like that are probably somewhere near zero -- all Florida has to do to pass Texas is win.

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  1. timbicycling
    1. Posted by timbicycling Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:10 pm EDT

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    Plain and simple, if Florida beats Alabama . . . and does not play in the championship - 50% of the would be viewers are gone - a total boycott. In two years there will be a play off system and everyone will say "at least now there will never be another BS bcs blunder ! "
  2. TV_Pete
    2. Posted by TV_Pete Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:00 pm EDT

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    The author forgot that Florida has to net 50 points or so MORE than Texas. This data does not show how much Texas might gain in this scenario (almost certainly jumping up above Alabama).
    I agree that the BCS Championship rematch of Texas against OU might be less popular than Florida against OU.
    My ideal would be to play the normal Bowl games (after championship games) and THEN determine the BCS Championship teams. This would basically be a Classic Bowls + 1 (rather than the convoluted 4-team playoff they were trying to force last year, despite knowing it was unacceptable to at least 2 conferences and not well liked by others).
    Sugar Bowl: SEC Champ (probably against Utah/Boise State)
    Orange Bowl: ACC (probably against Big East)
    Rose Bowl: PAC-10 against Big 10 (USC vs. Penn State)
    Fiesta Bowl: Big 12 Champ (probably Oklahoma) against at large team
    Cotton Bowl: Texas against good at large team
    Is this as satisfying as a playoff? Not to everyone. However, it gives USC and Oklahoma and the SEC Champ and Texas one more chance to shine (or stumble). Maybe the same dilemma exists after Jan 1st games. However, each of these games provide some quality games and could still be worked in the current system. In other words, while other systems cannot exist (contractually bound until 2014) in the near future, I believe this could be implemented (a stop gap or trial) almost right away.
  3. Jeff
    3. Posted by Jeff Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:32 pm EDT

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    Regarding any politicking by Mack Brown about "quality losses"....
    I think another factor might just trump that (presuming Florida wins), who won their conference and who didn't even win their division?
    Granted, Texas' failure isn't the same as Georgia's last year in that UGA played their way out of the East title. But either way, Texas is not, and will be NEITHER the 2008 Big XII South Champion or the 2008 Big XII Champion while a victorious Florida team would be BOTH the 2008 SEC East Champion and the 2008 SEC Champion.
    If Florida had more losses sure. But in this case with an equal number of losses, the conference champion angle would have to beat out this fictitious "quality losses" nonsense.
    (www.tuesdaylinebacker.com)
  4. Stephen
    4. Posted by Stephen Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:13 pm EDT

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    Of course all of this will be academic after Alabama wins.
    Roll Tide!!!!
  5. LD
    5. Posted by LD Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:01 pm EDT

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    Yes, I'm curious how many votes Florida will pick up after they get Sabaned in Atlanta.
    You don't choose The Process. The Process chooses you. Roll Tide.
  6. Travis G
    6. Posted by Travis G Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:51 pm EDT

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    for one, not that it changes your argument jeff, but texas is a co-champion of the big xii south. while i do agree it will cost viewers if it is a ut-ou rematch and while i believe florida will kill ou if they play (mostly because ou has a recent history of choking big time in bowl games) i think if you look at their schedules, texas had a harder road to get to the same record that florida did coming out of the sec which is not as strong as it usually is having less bcs ranked teams than the big east (higher ranked teams obviously, but less of them). looking at the bcs rankings as they are now florida beat only two teams that are still currently ranked (nos 16 and 24) and lost at home to a team who is not currently ranked in the bcs while texas beat three teams currently ranked (2, 14, and 20) and lost to the current number 7 on the road. that being said, i believe florida is one of the best teams in the country and deserves to be in the national championship, i just think texas deserves to be there just as much.
  7. atc-sooner
    7. Posted by atc-sooner Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:55 pm EDT

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    I heard Texas is going to rent another plane and fly a banner with the score of the Florida-Ole Miss score at the SEC Championship game! It will also say "We didn't lose at home!"
  8. MA
    8. Posted by MA Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:20 pm EDT

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    Go ahead and let them rent the plane. Too bad the SECCG is played in the Georgia DOME!
    GO GATORS!
  9. JR
    9. Posted by JR Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:34 pm EDT

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    WE NEED A PLAYOFF SYSTEM! If the FCS (formerly 1-AA) , Div II and III can do it, why can't the FBS (formerly Div 1A) do it? INSANE! GO GATORS!!
  10. Perry C
    10. Posted by Perry C Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:07 pm EDT

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    i guess everything that goes around comes around. in uf's 96 nc campaign, i remember rooting as hard as i possibly could for texas to beat nebraska in the big 12 championship game, and they did. now the tides have turned.
    in all seriousness, the big 12 is the power conference this year no doubt. however, the same argument as 2006 applies - if you didn't even win the conference, why should the voters reward your team with a trip to the mnc game? i think that usc even has more of a stake than texas would in that case. at least they didn't already lose to a hypothetical oklahoma big 12 champion.
    either way, if uf takes care of business, it will no doubt be ranked ap #1, seeing as how its ap #2 now behind bama. in this case, if they win the sugar bowl game (should they not go to miami) i don't see them walking away with anything less than a split championship this year.
  11. atc-sooner
    11. Posted by atc-sooner Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:55 pm EDT

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    I didn't say they were smart!
  12. PhilipL
    12. Posted by PhilipL Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:00 pm EDT

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    there should be a rule that states that the national championship game should not be between conference teams. It is basically a self fulfilling prophesy. Your teams are ranked highly because they've only played each other. Only a team like USC that has tried playing top out of conference teams deserves a high ranking... but the fact that their conference is so weak and they lost to a team that they had no business loosing to... makes them be ranked quite a bit lower.
    I am a Gator fan, and even I know that the stats are biassed. How many times did the Gators beat the "best defense in the SEC" this season by a wide margin? Why are only 2 of the 4 teams that were ranked when they played against the gators still ranked? It is because there are over a hundred teams in the league and you cannot play everybody. It is very subjective. I don't think it will happen, but what if all 3, Texas, Tech, and OU loose their bowl games? They are ranked highly right now because they only played each other. Remember that.
    Until one team and another play on a leveled field, we cannot know for sure which is better. We can guess that Florida can beat Alabama because of comparisons in total scores of common teams, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
    I would like to see a OU/UF matchup. and just think Texas... If OU beats Florida, you can take credit for having beaten the "national champions"
  13. SpartanDan
    13. Posted by SpartanDan Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:11 pm EDT

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    Perry: "i think that usc even has more of a stake than texas would in that case. at least they didn't already lose to a hypothetical oklahoma big 12 champion."
    Texas didn't lose to Oklahoma either, you know. (That's one reason I think a rematch might not be so severely frowned upon compared to '06 - it would be "we already beat them, let us prove we're better again" instead of "they already beat us, but give us another chance anyway".)
    Jeff: The difference there is that LSU won Georgia's conference. With equal records, you'd have to have a truly spectacular argument to justify taking a team that did not win its conference over their own conference champ. (It's possible in the case of really wacky tiebreakers, maybe, though in conferences with a championship game I can't think of any good reason to.) But in this scenario, we wouldn't be taking Texas ahead of their own conference champ, we'd be taking them in addition to their own conference champ and ahead of the champion of a different (and, this year, clearly inferior) conference. It's also different from '06, in which the runner-up (Michigan) lost the first matchup; Texas beat OU already, and I can certainly see the argument that they should be allowed another shot to prove they're better.
  14. mangere_bridge
    14. Posted by mangere_bridge Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    Where does the .944 come from? It seems weird that the magic number is given as a Florida poll score instead of a Florida-Texas poll gap.
  15. Michael S
    15. Posted by Michael S Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:20 pm EDT

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    Mathmatically possible, yet highly unlikely is the correct path for this hypothetical...Just like Texas winning the big twelve matchup with missouri... The computers were on the side of O.U., all that was needed was voters input...And in the end the THREE way tie was determined by the highest ranking...You have computers and you have polls they fly in the face of each other every week and not on just a slight scale, on a huge one...The bottom line is the polls tell everyone what voters think is going on or want to be going on and computers tell you what is going on...The bcs is a joke because voting is allowed in the final avg. that very fact alone makes it biased and null and void...My asessment is use one or the other but not both. If you go the computer route then you have an un-biased and mathmatically correct determination on placement for the teams and no playoff is necessary....With polls you have opinions and they are what they are but mostly its just a fleeting idea but not a correctly analyzed asessment....Anyone?
  16. Denzel G
    16. Posted by Denzel G Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:41 pm EDT

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    Roll Tide BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alabama 35 - Florida 10 You saw it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  17. Jeff
    17. Posted by Jeff Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:32 pm EDT

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    Travis, unfortunately for Texas (and against what I thought should happen, fwiw) they are not the Big XII South co-champions. By tie-breaker they are in second place (or third if you ask people from Lubbock I'm sure).
    My thoughts, and this goes no matter if my favorite team is part of the discussion or not, is that since what we have now is a two team playoff, there should be some rules in place as to who can participate. In an 8 or 16 team bracket, you will have some non-champion teams of course. But in a two team bracket, the participants must be conference champions.
  18. k29_99zx
    18. Posted by k29_99zx Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:45 pm EDT

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    It's sort of funny that all the talk puts Florida in the national championships but they have not played Bama yet! On the other hand Utah and Boise are both no loss teams, and no one mention either because of who they played! What happens if Florida loses to Bama? Will they be out of the top 6! Will Boise get a BCS game! Seems all the big 6 schools are scared of a lost to little old Bosie! Ask OK about thinking Bosie is soft! In fact wouldn't a rematch seem fitting if Bama or Florida loses! Florida would have two loses and should be ranked 8th or 9th then! Boise and Utah should move up in the BCS Standings! Oh what happens if some team loses to Utah in the BCS game? Plus the talk of Boise St and Ball State seems to be a comp out! Let Boise St in and lets watch who ever stop there offense, If they can!!! I bet they pull of another so called upset! Florida vs Boise St would be exciting, and Utah Vs Texas and the Championship would put hard hitting OK vs Bama for the guys that love hard hitting killers!
  19. kenny
    19. Posted by kenny Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:20 pm EDT

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    atc-sooner:
    There's no talk in Austin about renting a plane for the SEC title game. That idea is all yours and makes you look even more stupid for not knowing that game would be played indoors. Then again, I expect nothing less from a sooner fan. Do your homework.....
  20. DC
    20. Posted by DC Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:28 pm EDT

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    "Travis, unfortunately for Texas (and against what I thought should happen, fwiw) they are not the Big XII South co-champions. By tie-breaker they are in second place (or third if you ask people from Lubbock I'm sure)."
    - Jefferey -
    Jeff, even though this is a moot point, you still need to get your facts straight son. Please read, if applicable..."Bob Burda, an assistant commissioner of the league, handed Mack Brown and his team the crystal-spired trophy signifying the Longhorns' sixth share of the zone title in the Big 12's dozen seasons." - CFN
    It appears that Texas was co-champions of the South. The tie-breaker, was used to determine who represented the South of the 3 Co-champions. Also, there is no such thing as a fictitous "quality" loss. Texas lost on the road, to the #6 team in the nation, on the last offensive play of regulation, to what turned out to be the single greatest play in Texas Tech history...(not to mention the dropped INT) after defeating then #1 OU, #11 Mizzou, and #7 OKie State in the previous 3 weeks. Florida lost at home to and unranked Ole Miss team, but did play the power houses of Hawaii, Miami, and Tennessee the 3 previous weeks. They were probably tired, right?
    Pardon Longhorn nation for feeling a little short changed, let us rest bro!!
    One last thing for you OU bandwagon fans, (not the loyal OU fans, bc I just simply hate you), but to the bandwagon fanatics...why are you all over OU's jocks when they don't have a defense this year??? OU is known for choking in big games, (Lost to UT 4 out of 5 and pretty much every BCS bowl ever created) and that's when they have great defenses. What's different this year? A&M scored 28(9 vs UT), KU scored 31(7 vs UT)), Kansas St. scored 35(28 in the 1st half), OSU scored 41(24 vs UT), and UT scored 45! Wake up people!! If A&M can score 28 on OU, Florida can score infinity.
    Parting words from Mack...
    We won head-to-head. I don't want to make a big to-do out of it. But Alabama and Florida get to play theirs off. The Big 12 South isn't going to get to play it off, and if that's the case, the two highest ones (in the South) have already played it off, and that's why I think we deserve to go.
    - Mack Brown -
  21. yp_taurus_corpus_christi
    21. Posted by yp_taurus_corpus_christi Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:58 pm EDT

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    To best describe the (BCS) system,.......it has to be the bastard cousin of "would of", "could of " and " should of ".
  22. MONGONI
    22. Posted by MONGONI Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:37 pm EDT

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    I'll be happy as long as the longcorns don't get in........shipley who?
  23. LongTrans
    23. Posted by LongTrans Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 pm EDT

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    If Florida beats Alabama, they definitely deserve to play for the National Championship. I'm a Longhorn Fan and would LOVE to see Texas play Florida, Alabama, USC or heck, even Oklahoma again. But that's not going to happen. I'll be stuck watching them play OSU or Utah probably, YAWN...........Florida turned their season around for sure. But, BAMA sure has surprised everyone all year, so perhaps another surprise is in store for us Saturday. Whatever happens, we should be in for some good college ball. It's been a fun year! I just wish we had playoffs. What a concept...............
  24. Kyle H
    24. Posted by Kyle H Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    35-10, wow denzel thta's pretty bold! Lets see since 92 uf and bama have played in the title game 5 times, uf has won three, and bama two! let's look at overall titles since 92, uf has 6 and bama has just the above mentioned two! So for those bama fans out there just remeber who's dominated the sec over the past 16 years Umm not That stupid ass elephant!!!! By the way a few of those game went right down to the wire so don't predict 25 point margins, that's just stupid. I say UF-28,Bama-24... Both defenses are pretty darn good!
  25. Mark R
    25. Posted by Mark R Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:07 pm EDT

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    Let me lay out a scenario where the "Conference champs only" rule would be a very bad idea...
    Let's say there are two gigantic upsets this weekend--UCLA over USC (it happened two years ago) and Mizzou over OU (Mizzou has something to prove and is playing a virtual home game). Under that scenario, the potential opponents for the SEC champ would be Penn State, Utah, Boise State, Mizzou, Cincinnati, Oregon State, or the BC-VT winner. Could anyone argue that any of those matchups would be a better idea than SEC champ-Texas?

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