Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

From the beginning, an inordinate amount of the attention paid to the Reggie Bush illegal benefits scandal has centered on the hardware, specifically Southern Cal's BCS championship in 2004 (the allegations don't extend to the Trojans' 2003 AP championship season) and, maybe more evocatively, Bush's Heisman in 2005, the season most directly tainted by the apparent evidence. The most prominent of the several books chronicling (and clouding) the saga is tellingly titled, "Tainted Heisman." The idea of a group of stone-faced, black-clad doers of justice marching into Heritage Hall and lifting the prizes right out of the trophy cases seems to be the satisfaction that Trojan haters demand, and that a lot of outside observers presume.

As outgoing Pac-10 commissioner Tom Hansen reminded L.A. Times readers earlier this week, though, even if the NCAA does eventually decide to drop the hammer on Bush or USC at large, the Association would have a very hard time revoking honors it doesn't control:

Q. Hypothetically, how would you strip a national title from a football team? Unlike basketball, the NCAA doesn't run [a national championship in] football.

A: It's trickier because you don't have the NCAA mechanisms. ... It's not completely clear exactly how the process could be pursued.

On one hand, I think it's news here that Hansen takes the question at face value, acknowledging that yes, the dominant football program in his conference might deserve to be stripped of a title, instead of playing the politician by waving off the insinuation as premature, hypothetical or inappropriate, or just saying it's out of his hands. But he's right that a punitive strike at a national championship (or a Heisman Trophy) would be uncharted waters -- no champion has ever been stripped of the honor, and the murkiness of contemplating such a move only points to the inherently mythical, decentralized and somewhat chaotic nature of the thing.

Who has the right to revoke a BCS championship, anyway? Presumably, the leadership of the Downtown Athletic Club of New York could take back its Heisman, though it's never attempted to do so with any of its other winners and probably has no procedure for redaction. But who's responsible for the crystal ball? The cabal of conference presidents that oversee the BCS? Nominally, their charge is only to ratify the system that selects teams to play in the title game, not to award a champion. That task falls to the coaches in the USA Today poll, whose rigged "vote" officially awards the trophy. Would the question be up to those coaches? Who's going to ask them?

If the NCAA chooses -- and that remains a very large, lingering if at this point in the USC investigation -- it can declare every win a loss in those championship seasons, maybe dock a scholarship or two and type up papers that say "probation," whatever that means these days. But once the big prizes are out of the bag, barring a miracle of consensus and coordination, it seems they're out for good. Short of crippling a cash cow with stricter scholarship cuts than it's doled out in years or reviving the long lost bowl/championship ban going forward, the Association's options are only speed bumps.

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  1. Phil C
    1. Posted by Phil C Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:41 pm EDT

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    Whatever, this whole investigation is a bunch of b.s. USC strait up cheated and needs to be punished for it, and while it may be imposible to strip USC of its national title we all now know that it was tainted which is pretty much the same thing. What really needs to be done now is a loss of scholarships, and not just a slap on the wrist. I'm talking about multiple scholarships over several years, it may sound as if I'm just being a hater but need I remind you that by cheating USC managed to win two national titles and a heisman award, the two most coveted awards in college football.
  2. JamesY
    2. Posted by JamesY Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:00 pm EDT

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    NCAA only does what's best for the NCAA. That probably means a slap on the wrist at most....and forget about a playoff.
  3. ev
    3. Posted by ev Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:11 pm EDT

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    Just to throw a monkey wrench into the idea, the NCAA doesn't vacate bowl wins. The NCAA pulled OU's wins (only to give them back) but not their bowl win. IF the NCAA were to take USC's 2004 seasons victories (and that is highly doubtful if you look at the timeline of benefits), they still wouldn't take USC's win over OU in the BCS MNC game. How do you take their NC if you don't take that win?
  4. Dunk
    4. Posted by Dunk Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:12 pm EDT

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    WE all know its "tainted" but in the annals of history I don't think their championship will be remembered as tainted at all. In reality many many teams are tainted and many champions of past have been tainted. In fact, many way more tainted that USC team. Like any Nebraska team from from 80's with all their juice and supposed homegrown talent. Or those teams in south bend that were "under the tarnished dome". In the end the fans remember what they want to remember and it seems that is almost always how dominant and exciting those teams were. Only a real life curmudgeon is going to spin a yarn to his grand kids about the tainted USC national title. Maybe that is the strategy, if you're great enough and people love you they will ignore your transgressions however major or minor they be. deep stuff I know.
  5. Tim S
    5. Posted by Tim S Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:18 pm EDT

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    I agree its a total joke. The darlings of the media, the Trojans, are just to blessed to be put on probation or have the hammer thrown at them. I am sick of the NCAAZIS being swayed by the geographical regions. They are so smitten by some teams and seem to have it in for others. They hammer Alabama for students getting textbooks and yet look the other way as teams like Tennessee and Auburn giving players free passes on classes. I think that the woeful NCAAZIS should be disbanned from having any power over anything. Thats a sad bunch
  6. John C
    6. Posted by John C Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:43 pm EDT

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    go brewers!
  7. steve_ogrady
    7. Posted by steve_ogrady Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:59 pm EDT

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    Grant, the NCAA considers benefits to the parents of a player the same as benfits paid directly to the player. They do not differentiate. And the agents accused of the unethical actions can most certainly be considered boosters of the program if they were invited to workouts, contributed money or otherwise were active in their support of USC. The NCAA's definition of what constitutes a "booster" is very broad.
    And it remains to be seen what USC did or did ot know about the situation. Their is some evidence that e-mails were sent early on to notify the USC AD about the situaion and nothing was ever followed up on.
    All I know is I am quite sure that USC fans should be vey nervous about the conclusion of this investigation.
  8. ev
    8. Posted by ev Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:53 pm EDT

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    The NCAA doesn't consider agents the same as boosters, in that you are wrong. This came out of the '98 Michigan case where Woodson was found to have taken money from agents and the NCAA didn't punish the school. It's been this way every since, and it's why the NCAA has already come out and said they will need proof that USC knew about the money. Boosters work in the interest of the school and it's why the NCAA expects the school to have control over them. However that isn't the case with agents, they work against a schools interest. The NCAA has been clear they don't' consider them the same way. As to any e-mails, that is nothing but a rumor and no proof has every been shown. That goes for Yahoo or the follow up book.
  9. ROBERT G
    9. Posted by ROBERT G Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:56 pm EDT

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    1. with florida state now having lost its appeal and alabama filing an appeal which they are doomed to lose, the current members of the ncaa infractions committee are now indeed in uncharted waters.
    2. they have actually flushed the corruption out of the ncaa and are enforcing the rules against the big schools in a manner which the ncaa has never done before.
    3. with the usc athletic department, the athletic department that intentionnally broke so many rules( and is still doing so) ever since mikey hired petey and then stonewalled and laughed at the press, the public, the pac 10 conference( tom hansen's choice of retirement times is not an accident. hansen feels the ncaa axe coming down), the sky is the limit for the ncaa with the usc athletic department.
    4. at least alabama and florida state,unlike the usc athletic department, at a certain point, self reported and cooperated instead of stonewalling and publicly laughing about how untouchable they were.
    5. the death penalty-no because the usc community was duped just like the public.
    6. forfeiture of games, national and conference titles, and large financial penalties of tv and other revenues for 2004 and many other years while the coverup has been going on will be just to warm up.
    7. banning petey and mikey and floyd and those people at usc who knowingly cooperated with them in the violations and the coverup from college athletics for life will be next with usc going after them all for very large damages and getting those damages.
    8. the bcs is run by schools which are members of the ncaa. therefore, with respect to national titles, the bcs has no choice but to follow to ncaa directives.
    9. the ap pollsters are theoretically independent. however,the ap depends upon the general public for revenues. therefore, the ap really has no choice but to follow the ncaa.
    10. as for the heisman, the heisman by laws specifically provide that the award cannot be given to a student athlete who is not eligible per ncaa rules, which is certainly the case with reggie and perhaps leinart and palmer.
    11. so, the heisman committee really has no choice either. the awards for those years will go the the ncaa eligible student athletes who finished second.
    12. usc will lose some scholarships and be banned from post season play for a few years.
    13. however, usc athletics will be back and winning with honesty and integrity.
    14. after all, with a very few exceptions, the usc community is as much a victim of these frauds as the real college teams that got beaten by usc semi pro teams and the general public, press, and every single company which furnished funds to put on athletic contests in which usc was involved.
  10. RedCloud
    10. Posted by RedCloud Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:17 pm EDT

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    USC is just too big to fail.
  11. Dunk
    11. Posted by Dunk Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:27 pm EDT

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    wow robert. seems a little extreme there.
    you lost me here
    2. they have actually flushed the corruption out of the ncaa and are enforcing the rules against the big schools in a manner which the ncaa has never done before. You really think they will take back TV revenue from USC? no way .
    You Really think they will not only kick out Petey but sue him as well? no way.
    You really think USC athletics will be back winning with honesty and integrity? no way.
    You really think "USC community" is a victim? with all that fine trim I have to say... no way.
    There will always be corruption. Next thing you'll say is that NCAA should kick out Myles Brand and put in Marc Cuban and then maybe there would be some justice.
  12. Jim R
    12. Posted by Jim R Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:43 pm EDT

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    I don't understand the difference between a booster and an ex-con sports agent. Boosters don't work for the school. Agents don't work for the school. Mobster sports gamblers don't work for the school.
    It's called Lack of Institutional Control. Shug Knight on the sidelines is Lack of Institutional Control. Ex-con sports agents in the locker room is Lack of Institutional Control.
    But it's ok because they kept the boosters away? Give me a break.
    If the NCAA just slaps USC's wrist, they are sending a clear message: GO AHEAD AND CHEAT!
  13. Mr. Demo
    13. Posted by Mr. Demo Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 pm EDT

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    Phil C... Look and you will find. I bet every single national title winner within a dynasty, has cheated the system. Miami, Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, Florida and USC..... All Cheaters. Although teams like Virginia Tech, Georgia, Illinois, louisville, Florida State, Alabama of course and yes Tennessee. All cheaters. It's obviuse by their sudden rise or fall from the top. These team sucked balls all through the 90's until they figured out how to cheat. Keep a close what on what the hell their doing in the Oregon schools. Chad Johnson is from virgnia and Steve jackson is from the south somewhere to. What are they doing in Corvallis. the point is all these schools have to do this and they have never stopped. Your are naive to think it is an isolated incident, I'd bet about 85% of all powerhouse programs cheat.
  14. Mile's Knee
    14. Posted by Mile's Knee Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:01 pm EDT

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    USC...the pro team in the Pac-10.
  15. Joe
    15. Posted by Joe Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:10 pm EDT

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    all of you are d bags ................ first of all how can the national titles be tainted - that's just plain retarded. I understand if they found out that HEISMAN WINNER Reggie Bush was taking performance enhancing drugs, but he wasn't. They won those national titles because they had talent, they were better than the other teams. Just because some D-BAG at yahoo that is jealous and accused him of taking money doesn't mean that the national tittles will be tainted. He is innocent until proven guilty.
    Also remember-why these sports writers are D-BAGS. How can Mike Vick go to jail for a long period of time for what he was associated with - and how the sports writes and media pretty much pounded him to the ground.
    And here comes dumb ass Stallworth DRUNK DRIVING and kills an innocent man - and gets 30 days - What kind of CRAP is that. What sucks more is the media is ok with it - they are not pounding him to the ground - I actually heard of of the sports writers say that He did everything perfectly and since he accepted what he did its ok to give him 30 days
    WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  16. two_smellyfeet
    16. Posted by two_smellyfeet Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:21 pm EDT

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    Tim S
    The difference between what happened with Alabama what you only want to believe went on at Auburn was that the NCAA found no wrong doing in regards to players getting credit for classes they did not attend at Auburn. At Alabama, the corruption was spread across the entire athletic department and involved over 200 athletes from more than 15 different sports. The 7 worst offenders in the case were the 7 football players. So you can play the typical bammer crap that "it's you against the world" or the "everyone is out to get us" card all you want because everyone outside of the bammer program knows it is not true.
    So please tim, and the rest of you bammers that think you got "hammered by the NCAA," please give it a rest because it is not true. You vacated some wins. That is it. You didn't lose scholarships. You were not banned from postseason play or tv. The penalty will not affect the future of the program. ALABAMA GOT OFF EASY. The text book infraction was a major violation according to NCAA rules which occured while on probation and during the repeat offender window. So just be happy Bama got what it got and nothing more.
  17. ev
    17. Posted by ev Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:32 pm EDT

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    Actually some boosters do work for the school. Agents never do. A booster will try to get kids in, or keep them in. Agent only want the kid out. Regardless, the NCAA considers all boosters under the control of the school whether they are or not. That isn't the case with agents, in fact it's the opposite.
  18. srfman11
    18. Posted by srfman11 Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:37 pm EDT

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    Robert G -
    Pass over whatever you're smoking because you ARE STOOOONED!!!
    Good luck w the schadenfreude, lol.
  19. herbert e
    19. Posted by herbert e Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:17 pm EDT

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    #16 titlis are plural usc has one title
  20. vegasrolla95
    20. Posted by vegasrolla95 Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:54 pm EDT

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    The fact remains USC still won those titles. They played hard, they played with intensity, and they played with talent. The student athletes should hold their heads high and be proud of their hard work and accomplishment. Nothing can dispell that fact.
  21. kinger
    21. Posted by kinger Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:49 pm EDT

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    Demo:
    Chad is from Miami, not Virginia, and made his way to OSU via Santa Monica CC. Steven Jackson is from Vegas -- basically no where near the south.
    Not a Beaver fan at all, but nice insinuations coming from you in regards to those guys places of birth...
  22. drumsandchicken
    22. Posted by drumsandchicken Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:06 pm EDT

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    I doubt that it is true that there is some magical distinction between agents and boosters that allows schools to go unpunished if the person giving benefits is an agent. While it may be true that the NCAA rarely punishes schools whose athletes contact agents, the NCAA almost certainly has the ability to do so. Case in point: Andre Smith being suspended for the Sugar Bowl. If it is true that the school would face no penalty for Smith's contact with an agent, then why wouldn't Alabama bury the story instead of suspending Smith and making it a story? There had to be a reason for 'Bama's decision and the most probable one is that the Tide faced penalties if it was discovered that Smith had contacted an agent.
    Also, the differences between an agent and a booster are somewhat oversimplified in ev's post...at least in this case. Reportedly Bush began receiving benefits from an agent in 2004...when he was ineligible for the draft as an underclassman. An agent wouldn't provide benefits at that time to get the player to leave school, which he couldn't do anyway. The benefits would be provided to build a relationship so that when the player did leave school the agent would have a leg up on the other agents competing to represent the player. In this case the agent would basically be AN AGENT AND A BOOSTER AT THE SAME TIME. And that is the troublesome part of the case against USC; it would appear as though the university deliberately turned a blind eye while agents were contacting their atheletes in plain sight and often in the locker rooms. At the very minimum it would appear that the university lacked the institutional controls to ensure that athletes were abiding to the rules and I fail to see why the NCAA has to prove that an email exists before it can say that these things were happening and USC absolutely failed to control any of it..
  23. Sinisa Mahajlovic
    23. Posted by Sinisa Mahajlovic Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:34 pm EDT

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    It's really immature to refer to everyone who doesn't like your team as 'haters'. Get professionalism.
  24. Sal
    24. Posted by Sal Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:57 pm EDT

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    Robert G: another bRuin obsessed with USC while his own [profane]ty school lets players drive drunk, use stolen cars, park in handicapped spots by the practice field, and rape coeds. And ucla fans think Ray is a thug because of his genuine tribal tattoos? Look no further than your own practice field, powder blue and gold lame` spandex boy. NO ONE runs a clean program. ESPECIALLY SLICK NEW WEASEL.

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