Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:27 am EST
Profiles in Disillusion: Notre Dame fans contemplate a Weis-less future
Following the weekend's conquered favorites and other notables through the stages of grief.
Anger. Charlie Weis seemed so very, very fired even before Notre Dame's 27-22 loss at Pittsburgh -- even the staid old Chicago Tribune called the loss just "another speck in Charlie Weis' constellation of disappointments," rapidly imploding on itself -- that the Irish faithful couldn't possibly have anything left in their bile reserves for him, could they? Hasn't the man suffered enough?
Oh, you innocent lamb. The latest marathon comment thread at the Irish blog Blue-Gray Sky includes plenty of rage directed at the refs for various calls -- particularly the puzzling incomplete-pass/fumble switcheroo on ND's last offensive snap of the game -- but that rage is quickly redirected back to the sideline when some commenters start suggesting Weis will use the bad calls as an excuse to hang on for another season. At least a few Domers thinking that far ahead have already excised Weis from their visions entirely:
The new coach has to build around running the ball and playing defense, and winning the line of scrimmage. That is what football is all about.
Same deal at the blog Rakes of Mallow, where a broadside at the refs is followed directly by the requisite jab at Weis's weight, which almost seems quaint and even a little nostalgic at this point.
As the saying goes, though, it's when they stop complaining that you should really start worrying. On that note, perhaps the most ominous signs for the Irish program as a whole are comment threads like this one at the Tribune's Web site, in which readers who claim not to "give a rat's butt about that school" tear various strips off the Trib for spending so much ink on an out-of-state school in the first place -- presumably because they're looking to free up space for more info on Northwestern and Illinois? Ouch.
Bargaining. Remember what we said a couple weeks ago about the fatalistic gloom of Michigan fans? So conditioned have the Wolverines become to soul-crushing misery that Saturday's three-touchdown loss at Wisconsin (which stretched their Big Ten losing streak to six games) barely raised the collective pulse of the sprawling Michigan blogosphere. Bargaining was the order of the day, including, but not exclusive to: "Let's just beat Ohio State" (Maize & Blue Nation); "Let's just beat somebody at basketball" (Maize 'n' Brew and Wolverine Liberation Army); and "Let's just beat somebody at anything" (MVictors, smarting over both the Wisconsin loss and a loss to hated Michigan State in hockey).
In the "Denial" wing of the Blue's blues, outgoing Michigan athletic director Ed Martin was somewhat less pessimistic Saturday night, although if his intention was to bolster confidence in coach Rich Rodriguez's rebuilding skills, he may not have chosen the most inspiring comparison:
"I was just reading last night in Sports Illustrated the article about (Paul) Johnson at Georgia Tech and what happened down there when he first came," Martin said. "Now he's having a wonderful year. He's 9-1 [now 10-1], but talked about how their quarterbacks left, the receivers left, all the skill players left that program. He's turned it around in two years. I expect you’ll see that same situation."
In his first two years at Tech, Johnson installed a totally new offensive system, overhauled the culture, suffered a wave of attrition and has still managed to go 19-5, beat the Jackets' most hated rival, secure a bid in the conference championship game and guide a perpetually mediocre program into the top 10 in the BCS standings in late November. In his first two years at Michigan, Rodriguez installed a totally new offensive system, overhauled the culture, suffered a wave of attrition and has managed to go 3-12 in Big Ten games with back-to-back losses to Michigan State and Penn State and, barring a miracle Saturday against Ohio State, will suffer consecutive losing seasons at a program that hadn't finished below .500 in 40 years before his arrival. Is this really the comparison you want to put in your fan base's collective consciousness, Ed?
Precisely to avoid the immediate consequences of that and similar lines of thought, MGoBlog and the Big House Blog encouraged perspective by nuking first-time commenters and encouraging donations to help former players Phil Brabbs and Vada Murray in their fights against cancer, respectively.
Acceptance. Tennessee may have been a hot team coming off three wins and a near-upset at Alabama in their last four games, but they were also a defensively banged-up team ripe for a gut-punching -- and a gut-punching they got Saturday from Ole Miss everythingback Dexter McCluster, who outgained the entire Vol offense all by his lonesome. There was no denying his dominance on the field, and UT blog Rocky Top Talk didn't even try, simply admitting to "a helpless feeling" in the face of the Rebel onslaught. Third Saturday in Blogtober revived the familiar "That escalated quickly" meme from "Anchorman," which we've seen here before, but stopped to tip its cap to McCluster while simultaneously throwing UT defensive line coach and former Ole Miss boss Ed Orgeron under the bus:
... Um, yeah. He made us look like a pee wee football team today. Hats off to the Rebs. Hats off to Dex, who played like the superduperstar he is. Can't wait to watch him on Sundays. ...
UT was just out-classed. The New England Patriots couldn't have stopped McCluster today, and New England we ain't. At least the Vols got beat by the players its coaches recruited.
Naturally, last week's armed-robbery arrests of a trio of Vol players got the obligatory mention in newspaper columnists' post-mortems of the game, but to their credit, none of them used the off-field turmoil as an excuse. Perhaps Knoxville News-Sentinel columnist John Adams, in a rare burst of accurate insight, put it best: "It's not as though the Vols gave up. They just gave out." But Vol Nation's reasonableness in the wake of the loss didn't stop one Ole Miss partisan, commenting at Rocky Top Talk, from twisting the knife a little:
In this case, clearly, Ole Miss' loss was Ole Miss' gain.
Depression. How would you feel if your team just lost to Steve Kragthorpe to give Louisville its first Big East win of 2009, despite holding the Cardinals to their lowest offensive output of the decade? Yup, probably about like this:
The "crying child" has been a staple of Syracuse blog Orange::44 since the early days of the Greg Robinson era in 2005, to the point where the clock at the top of the page now bears the legend "Countdown to Football Frustration," but for this particular loss -- all but securing another last-place finish in a season that began with some promise in new coach Doug Marrone's first year -- Brian Harrison has also added a Lucy-yanks-away-the-football YouTube just for good measure. (Particularly apt not only for the general arc of the season, but because Syracuse broke a 3-3 tie with a touchdown early in the fourth quarter, only to botch the extra point, then gave up the winning score to the Cardinals with less than 90 seconds to play.)
Meanwhile, the dogged 'Cuse chronicle Troy Nunes is an Absolute Magician notes with chagrin in one breath that the sublime, season-long "Quest for Toronto" (i.e. a bid in the International Bowl) is officially null as the Orange suffer their seventh loss, and in the next that "we just lost to lame duck Steve Kragthorpe." If two more depressing sentences have been written about college football this year, I'd sure like to see them.
On second thought, after all the depression I've waded through in this series over the last two and a half months, maybe I wouldn't.
Elsewhere in Disillusion: In the wake of USC's shocking 55-21 implosion against Stanford, we have yet another "Anchorman" sighting at the blog TrojanWire. And while the Sporting News' Dave Lewis thinks the Trojans will be just fine next year, as a Georgia fan, Conquest Chronicles' warning that Pete Carroll has used up a lot of goodwill with the fan base rings very ominous indeed. ... The Great Blog of Virginia thanks New Mexico State for ensuring that the Cavaliers wouldn't finish with the weekend's worst offensive performance. ... And Block U sounds a suspiciously carefree note after watching Utah endure 55-28 dismantling at the hands of TCU.
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33 Comments
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(it's Bill Martin, not the booster that destroyed their basketball program)
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Here are my thoughts: Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly KELLY Kelly Kelly KELLY Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly Kelly KELLY KELLY Kelly KELLY Kelly Kelly. Kelly.
That is all.
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But also consider Weis' and Wannstedt's earnings. With the current contract situation, Weis is owed $18 million, his assistants are owed $1M? I don't think Wannstedt will see any money that big - ever! The big winner is Weis!
But, he could be pressured to resign... Would he do it?
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A five year contract for a new head coach is appropriate, and extending it after each year (for one year) is appropriate. That way recruits KNOW he'll be there the next five years.
But this is ridiculous! Paying a guy $18M for nothing.
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brian hamilton of the chicago tribune has been a well paid nd and weis bashing shill for nd enemies for many years and knows bupkis..
none of the people who now have decision making power over all football matters at notre dame have even though about firing charlie.after all, every one of them was a successful student athlete at notre dame, and excelled in the nfl and in their personal and business lives. they know dishonest officiating, rules enforcement, and rankings systems when they see them.
given all of the vicious media garbage constantly thrown at charlie by shill who know nothing, charlie did have to clear his decision to stay with his wife and son.
as for pete carroll and his crooked usc football program, their well earned economic fates are rapidly closing in on them.
1st. after being outraged by the crooked pac 10 officiating which robbed notre dame and oregon state of wins over usc, new and honest pac 10 commissioner larry scott took personal control over pac 10 football officiating and made every pac 10 official personnally accountable to scott, thus making possible both oregon's and stanford's blowout wins over petey's spoiled 4 and 5 star usc full time football players, very few of whom could possibly qualify as genuine student athletes when the rules are actually applied next season.
2nd, petey's and usc's and regie bush. coverup plans have blown up in their faces. on 10/15/2009 when we won our big disclosure case over the ncaa forcing the ncaa to disclose to the public, for the 1st time ever, all of the ncaa records relating to the ncaa investigation of academic fraud at florida state.
the ncaa spent miliions in attorneys' fees at trial and on appeal trying to stop that from happening.
the ncaa is certainly not going to repeat that mistake with all ncaa records of the ongoing investigations of serial rules violations by petey and mikey and the usc football and athletic departments.
that whole ugly magilla will be available online very shortly and the responsible individuals at the ncaa who did bupkis despite the overwhelming evidence will have to explain why they have done nothing at their public depositions and at public civil trials. we know all about the ncaa payoff for no punishment system.
3rd, as if the lifting of the veils of secrecy over the ncaa usc records were no bad enough, after trying every possible delay and buyoff tactic in bush's bogus appeai in the lake vs bush case, the california court of appeals 4th district, div one, in san diegio,has taken away bush's option for an oral argument by issuing a submission order on 11/16/2009 and set a deadline for their opinion of 2/16/2010.
these judges cannot be bought and the opinion will be out long before 2/16/2009 and will send the case back for a very public and very expedited jury trial in dan diego at which reggie and petey and mikey and many other persons previously or now associated with the usc football program will have no choice but to produce documents and to tesfy under oath at their depositions and at trial.
why have lake and his family and thjeir attorneys not accepted bush's huge setllement offers to buy their silences?
well, on the one hand, they are justifiably very angry with reggie and petey and mikey and the usc athletic department.
on the other hand, if lake and his family and attorneys were to accept any hush money, they would become conspirators in the coverup, aka obstruction of justice.
if they go to trial, they can keep every cent that they win.
as for petey's rumoured $500,000 payoff to notre dame, unlike certain people at usc, people at notre dame do not take payoffs.
petey would be well advised to keep his money for attorneys' fees or for his rumoured attempted escape to brazil.
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1) We started the season coming off of a 6-6 regular season mark, after going 3-9 the year before. We were ranked # 23. We beat a solid Nevada team (now 7-3 overall and 6-0 in the WAC) 35-0. This raises everyone's expectations for a very good season (including your's truly.) We get moved up to #18.
2) We play at Michigan, we have a late lead, our offense continues to show great promise and improvement over the previous season. We lose on a last minute score by Michigan, our defense looks shaky. However, our offense puts up 34 points, and we are in the game until the last minute. We get dropped out of the top 25.
3) We beat Michigan St with a TD with 5 minutes to go, and a late interception by the defense saves the day. Michigan St had owned the Irish lately, this ends that streak. We continue to shine on offense, scoring 33 points. However, our defense gives up 30, and still looks like a weak spot. Clausen gets a severe turf toe injury. We stay out of the top 25, not ranked. We lose one of, if not the best WR in the country to injury.
4) We beat Purdue with 25 seconds to go on a pass from a hobbled Clausen, that didn't start the game. We only score 24, but only give up 21. Along with the Nevada game, this is two games now the defense kept us close. Considering Clausen's injury and we start a freshman at Q.B, and missing Michael Floyd's 160 yds/gm of receiving, we are fortunate to come away with a win. Now 3-1, we stay not ranked in the top 25.
5) We play a Washington team that beat a #3 ranked USC at home. We score 37 points, while giving up 30. It takes us overtime to beat Washington. The offense again performs at top level, but the defense is again questionable. At 4-1 we again break into (barely) the top 25.
6) We play #6 ranked USC, that is coming off a domination of #24 ranked Cal (30-3). We score 27 points, which is 11 more than Washington scored on USC when they beat the Trojans, which was the most any team had scored on USC up to that point.#8 Ohio St only scored 15 on these defense.
We are in the game until the last seconds, with a goal line stand by USC saving their win. Again, our defense, giving up 34 points, lets us down. We are averaging 31.6 points/game. We again get dropped from the top 25.
7) We play Boston College, get a very hard fought victory over a very tough ACC team, 20-16. B.C. had owned us lately, this puts an end to that streak. The offense struggles, but Golden Tate shows why he is also one of the top WR's in the country, if not the top. The defense gives up 330 yards of offense, put only allows 16 points, including an interception with 1:30 to go that seals the win. We again are ranked #25
8) We play a neutral site night game in Texas, and dominate a weak Pac Ten Washington St team the first half 30-7, and win 40-14. We are still averaging @ 31.2 points/gm on offense. For some reason, this win over a weak team causes us to be lifted 6 spots to # 19.
9) We play a very good Navy team (now 8-3), averaging almost 300yds/gm rushing. Our defense can not stop their time consuming drives the first half, our offense does not score, we go down 21-0 . The second half, our defense adjusts, and hold Navy to 3 points.
However, we turn the ball over twice, and miss 41 and 30 yard field goals. We do not play well on offense or defense. We only lose by 3 points 24-21. Again, we get dropped from polls. We've now lost three close games. (note: USC, loser of two games, last week giving up 47 points in a 47-20 loss, stays ranked at #12 after only scoring 14 points on an average 4-4 Arizona team this week) We're now averaging 30.1 points/game.
10) Unranked Notre Dame travels to #8 Pitt, that beat us last year in OT at South Bend. We play flat the first three quarters, like the Navy loss has us still down. Our defense gives up some long runs, poor tackling plagues us again, but we only give up 27 points. However, again our offense does not score it's average, we only play well the last quarter, and an untimely penalty at the 3:00 minute mark tales momentum away from a potential game winning score, and we lose to a very good Pitt team by 5 points, 27-22. We're now averaging 29.3 points/game.
To me, losing to highly USC and Pitt in close games winnable in the last drives of the game are disheartening, and encouraging. They are games the oddsmakers and experts picked us to lose big, yet we hung in there and made the games close at the end. Big improvements. The Michigan game, the Navy game, both also winnable, though the Navy game showed we need too have a better game plan against option teams.
Now some "experts" and so-called "journalists", along with some very impatient or wishy-washy Irish fans are calling for Weis' job. This, in my humble opinion, shows a very distinct lack of analysis of the present abilities and weaknesses of the Notre Dame football program.
We're not a senior dominated team. We have juniors and underclassmen leading this team. They have shown great strides on offense, can play with any team on any Saturday. We're averaging 30 points/game. Going into the Pitt game, we were ranked 6th nationally on offense. I believe that is why we hired Charlie Weis??
Now, the defense: our front line shows no push, no ability to pressure the QB with our 4 man line. Contrast that to Pitt's NCAA leading QB sack line. Clausen was pressured the entire game. We got to the Pitt QB a few times with blitzes, yet exposed ourselves to long runs when we did. Yet, for all the negatives, we only allowed Pitt to score 27 points at home.
Problem? We need to recruit better D-linemen. Solution? Weis has a 5 star and a 4 star DE recruit committed. We have LB Te'o gaining valuable game experience as a true freshman. Not like the problems haven't been recognized and addressed Would you rather Charlie comes out and criticizes his players in public??? How about he details our weaknesses for the opposing teams to read about???????? No, he is doing EXACTLY what a smart coach does: evaluates and makes adjustments PRIVATELY.
So, while some say we need to fire Weis and get a new coach, I would wonder why we would want to get rid of a man coaching us to such very good offensive output? I would need them to tell me why they aren't asking for Pete Carroll's head after 47-20 and 55-21 bowout dominated losses? I'm all ears.
I would need these "experts" to tell me why 7-3 USC, only one game better than Notre Dame's record, is still ranked at #22??? Why aren't the "experts" calling for a 'defensive minded coach" to take over the USC program???
Why? Because nobody HATES and ENVIES the USC program like they do Notre Dame's. So, we need to make a few adjustments on defense, get a few more defensive recruits: Charlie has the 11th best recruiting class this year.
Go ahead Notre Dame "fans": throw the baby out with the bath water, and start all over again, but remember this: Lou Holtz lost 30 games, THIRTY GAMES to teams ranked in the top ten. Yet, we won a national championship under him, and it should have been two.
I'd be thankful Charlie has us playing well, be hopeful Clausen, Tate and Floyd return next year, and be rooting for us to kick some U Conn Huskie backside this Saturday.
But, I'm just a life-long fan, no experts like the plentiful critics.
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8. Posted by bobby Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:39 pm EST
i heard a rumor pete carroll was will to give nd $500,000 to keep wies said money well invested]
(2-5)Washington 16-USC 14
Oregon 47-USC 20
Stanford 55-USC 21
I'd say Petey boy better use that $500,000 to find a "defensive minded" coach to save his a$$, "bobby." Or maybe save it for legal fees over the Reggie Bush affair....
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[Jacob
3. Posted by Jacob Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:29 pm EST
In the sporting news article, Matt Hayes compares Notre Dame to Pitt. Both Weis and Wannstedt were hired in 2005. Pitt is heading towards the elite, with a showdown with Cinci. ND is headed to mediocrity, with two more games to determine what mediocre bowl game they go do.
But also consider Weis' and Wannstedt's earnings. With the current contract situation, Weis is owed $18 million, his assistants are owed $1M? I don't think Wannstedt will see any money that big - ever! The big winner is Weis!
But, he could be pressured to resign... Would he do it?]
Where does Sporting News and the expert Matt Hayes rank USC, Jacob??? How much did N.D. earn when Charlie took them to a BCS bowl, Jacob? How many times has Wannstedt had Pitt in a BSC bowl?
Figure it out. You also get paid for what you've accomplished in the past, not just the future, necessarily. It's called a "reward" ever heard of it?
Could we pressure you to go away from making asinine criticisms of a very good coach? I hope so, Jacob. Who's YOUR team, btw?
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[Jacob
3. Posted by Jacob Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:29 pm EST
In the sporting news article, Matt Hayes compares Notre Dame to Pitt. Both Weis and Wannstedt were hired in 2005. Pitt is heading towards the elite, with a showdown with Cinci. ND is headed to mediocrity, with two more games to determine what mediocre bowl game they go do.
But also consider Weis' and Wannstedt's earnings. With the current contract situation, Weis is owed $18 million, his assistants are owed $1M? I don't think Wannstedt will see any money that big - ever! The big winner is Weis!
But, he could be pressured to resign... Would he do it?]
Where does Sporting News and the expert Matt Hayes rank USC, Jacob??? How much did N.D. earn when Charlie took them to a BCS bowl, Jacob? How many times has Wannstedt had Pitt in a BSC bowl?
Figure it out. You also get paid for what you've accomplished in the past, not just the future, necessarily. It's called a "reward" ever heard of it?
Could we pressure you to go away from making asinine criticisms of a very good coach? I hope so, Jacob. Who's YOUR team, btw?
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How is usc still ranked? michigan, usc, and notre dame are always overrated. usc didnt even hav a quarterback in the beginning of the year & they still dont. barkley is good but hes not there yet. & 3 losses with 2 of them being blow-outs to teams ranked lower than them. stop over hyping teams from wut they did in the past, it takes the fun out of college football.
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true, charlie and his staff and those who hired charlie and notre dame's real student athletes did get blindsided by the levels of corruption they have encountered in college football officiating, rules enforcememt and rankings systems, but notre dame will never abandon its obligations to the complete development of every notre dame student athlete, just to win football games with full time athletes as have the football factories that have crawled into those sewers and ruined the current and future lives of so many 4 and 5 star high school athletes.
speaking of sewers, pete carroll of usc has yet another serious problem. petey has sold so many products of his uisc full time football program to nfl teams at inflated prices who have turned out to be nfl duds that the full time athletes now stuck at usc are seriously and correctly concerned that many nfl teams are suspicious of any products of petey's usc system.
after all, the so called college football players who have zero real academic obligatons can all look fantastic on the fields against real college football teams composed or real student athletes.
however, when they get to the nfl, they find out that everyone in the nfl plays football full time and that real rules of conduct and real drug testing takes place in the nfl.
once usc lost the advatage of having the services of dishonest pac 10 officials after new and honest pac 10 commissioner larry scott took personal control over pac 10 college football officiating after watching game films of crooked pac 10 officials stealing wins for usc from notre dame and oregon state, the pac 10 schools that have traditionnaly paid for dishonest pac 10 officiating services( usc and oregon( in oregon's case, without the knowledge of the current head coach)) lost those advantages and then proceeded to get blown out by stanford, one of the few pac 10 schools which fields football teams composed of real student athletes.
obviously, stanford has a fine team. however, how much of those big wins over oregon and usc, both full time football factories, were due to the presence of honest officiating and how much was due to the fact that ther full time football players at usc and oregon are no longer playing seriously, klowing that they are one injury away from having zero nfl futures which, in the case of the football factory schools(to identify those schools, just check the graduation success rates at the ncaa.
we would be able to say that the nation will really know how good this stanford football team really is when stanford and notre dame play this season.
however, that game will have a big east game crew(the big east football officials rank right up there with the sec officials in dishonesty with notre dame being a special target because, although notre dame is a member of the big east conference in most other sports, notre dame is an independent in football and will stay that way) and a pac 10 tech review crew.
at the last meeting of stanford and notre dame in palo alto in 2007, the big east officiating crew spotted stanford 7 points and stole 7 points from notre dame and the pac 10 tech review crew stole another 7 points from notre dame. those highlights are still available at und.com, under football and under greatest plays of the charlie weis era. despite the 21 point swing in favor of stanford, notre dame won the 2007 game anyway.
in 2008, stanford came to notre dame to play, this time with a pre larry scott game crew and a big east tech review crew and got another 21 point swing from the combined officials, only to lose again.
perhaps stanford and jim harbaugh would be willing to change the game contract to provide for all pac 10 game and tech review crews personally selected and vetted and observed by pac 10 commissioner larry scott, a harvard grad.
on the other hand, perhaps jim harbaugh and stanford do not want to take that risk, even with a notre dame team which should, by now, having had their fighting irish spirit driven out of them.
we will contact harbaugh and the members of the stanford board of trustees at their homes on this issue and see what they say and do.
we will report the results here and elsewhere on the internet. we already know that stanford grad tiger woods would be in favor of such an arrangement. harbaugh, with his michigan background, is another issue.
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ND played close games that could have gone either way vs Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Washington, and so on. The issue is that these close games weren't very telling early in the season b/c it wasn't clear how good/bad the opponents were. Wash beat USC, Purdue beat Ohio St, etc. However, now that we're near the end of the season and have a chance to review, the facts are that Purdue is 4-7, Michigan 5-6, Mich St 6-5, Washington 3-7. So, if ND is really as good as the talent would suggest (even w/Clausen's turf toe, Floyd's collarbone, etc), the problem is that these games shouldn't have been close wins/losses, but clear wins. Then you get to the USC game, which is far more important to ND than USC and we can't beat them at home (and USC is now 4-3 in the PAC-10 and clearly not as good as past yrs).
But, the real kicker is Navy. There's a reason ND beat Navy 43 times in a row. True, Navy has a good, disciplined 8-3 team this yr, but the simple fact is that there should be a talent gap between Navy and ND so large that even when ND plays poorly, we win. ND didn't beat Navy 43 times in a row b/c Navy was always horrible or b/c ND played well every time or anything like that, it's b/c the talent gap was always wide enough to allow for some of that. ND has the talent, but clearly has been playing very uninspired and flat football. We lose the line of scrimmage every game even though we supposedly have talent there. Sam Young will likely play in the NFL and is 6-something, 300-something-plus and I saw him miss a cut block on a Navy guy half his size who sacked Clausen in the endzone. This team has talent, but lacks fundamentals and inspiration and that's on the coaches!!!
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I'd like to see who they would replace him with. Charlie Weis? ROFL
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As for Charlie and ND, stop whining about how hard it is to recruit top-level players because of the high standards of the school. Are they higher than at Stanford? I don't think so. And look what Jim Harbaugh has accomplished in his short time there.
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