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Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:20 pm EDT

NCAA upholds sanctions against Florida State, lack of sympathy for Bowden's faltering pace

By Matt Hinton

Records can be strange beasts. Roger Maris had to put an asterisk by his 61 home runs; Barry Bonds' colossal season and career totals may not even stay in the books by the time the "Steroid Era" is finally exhausted and put out of its misery. In college football, overtime statistics count, but before 2002, bowl game statistics didn't. (Which makes Barry Sanders' record 2,628-yard, 37-touchdown season for Oklahoma State in 1988 all the more mind-boggling, because that doesn't include Sanders' 222-yard, five-touchdown effort in the Holiday Bowl.) Vince Young could not have gone down as the first quarterback to run for 1,000 yards and pass for 3,000 in the same season if he'd done it in 2000 instead of 2005, when his monster performance in the Rose Bowl pushed both numbers past the benchmarks. The actual thing and the official thing do not always correspond.

So it is now in Bobby Bowden's chase for the career wins record, which enters the 2009 season -- in all likelihood either his last or next-to-last season at Florida State -- one game behind Joe Paterno in actual wins: Bowden has 382 to JoePa's 383. But even if FSU wins enough games to pass Joe for that mark while Bowden is still boss, the official win total is looking more and more like it's all Paterno's to lose:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP)—The NCAA infractions committee intends to uphold sanctions against Florida State that would take away wins in 10 sports, including as many as 14 by football coach Bobby Bowden.
[...]
Bowden, who is preparing for his 34th season at Florida State, would have little chance to stay abreast of Penn State’s Joe Paterno in their competition to finish as major college football’s winningest coach if the penalty sticks.

Speaking of asterisks, the one that goes by the headline, "NCAA rejects Florida State's appeal to lift sanctions," is this: FSU has one more appeal left, to the Association's Infractions Appeals Committee, which makes the final call on whether those victories stay or go. Bobby can, theoretically, still get those Ws back. (Though with the NCAA's leisurely timetable, it could be well into the season, or even after, before anyone knows either way.)

This round of appeals did seem like FSU's best chance of keeping those wins -- vacated due to players later deemed ineligible thanks to a "widespread academic fraud" case involving dozens of athletes in multiple sports accused of cheating in an online music course in 2006 and 2007 -- which must make it all the more disheartening to the 'Noles to get a report back that describes the violations as "serious and intentional" and the conduct of unnamed FSU staffers as "reprehensible." That's not the kind of language that generally leads an appeal board to reverse course.

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  1. MikeLew
    1. Posted by MikeLew Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:32 pm EDT

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    In all of this, you're neglecting the fact that those "actual" wins include wins at Samford, which should be counted on a different level. Either that, or just quit the arguing between Bowden and Paterno and recognize Gagliardi and Robinson.
  2. ChrisB
    2. Posted by ChrisB Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:59 pm EDT

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    Argh... You're getting some facts wrong. The "NCAA" did nothing. The NCAA Committee on Infractions, however, submitted their response brief to the NCAA Committee on Appeals, which has yet to make a ruling. Sorry, but it is driving me crazy that reporters are getting this wrong. There is only one appeal. Nothing has been decided on that appeal. Nothing has been "upheld." The NCAA COI's brief uses such strong language because it is a legal brief advocating to the NCAA COA that the penalty be upheld. The very first page of the brief states that the COI is "submitting" the brief "for consideration" by the NCAA COA. The only thing this brief "means" is that the NCAA COI still thinks they were right in the first place. It would be a true shock if they were to suddenly reverse their own findings and opinions a mere few months after they made them. Since I'm not into conspiracies, and don't know why this would be considered worth sensationalizing, I can't for the life of me figure out why reporters from the AP, ESPN, and Florida's newspapers don't just call up FSU and ask for an explanation of the process.
  3. bobby
    3. Posted by bobby Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:17 pm EDT

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    jb you seem to have a problem with the "bowdens" and since you seem to know so much about how he votes in the coachs poll how about some facts instead of the slander you seem to prefer to write. this arguement is not about how much or why you like or dislike bobby bowden as much as it is a disscussion on why the ncaa chose the punishment they did and if the punishment fits the crime which let us not forget was cheating in an online music course. the students that did this are not being punished by the ncaa only the school and from where i sit and most non bias people sit it appears that this punishment is aimed at one person who was not guilty of anything but reproting the problem when it came to his attention. now as for paterno he lost all my respect when he kept getting on nat. tv complaining about teams running up scores while he was doing the same thing to div ii schools. mikelew i tend to agree the record is not going to be correct no matter what is decided by the ncaa but rarther then not counting wins that a coach got while at a div ii school i would like them not to count any win that came against a div ii school and that would take bowden and paterno both out of the record books
  4. Eric G
    4. Posted by Eric G Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:09 pm EDT

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    As a PSU fan, I can't seem to understand why Bowden will lose those victories. Though if the argument was about D-I victories, then no one would care based on the fact Bowden is a few years worth of victories behind Paterno. The whole thing is a joke, both coaches are staying the course to oust the other. I hate Bobby Bowden for his cocky attitude, but Joe is annoying the $hit out of me without designating a replacement or not giving it up earlier. Both do little to nothing for their teams except motivational speaking and sideline patrolling. Both are legends for their work, but enough is enough.
  5. Lyell W
    5. Posted by Lyell W Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:24 am EDT

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    I tell you what i think is funny....
    FSU fans are only up in arms about the "vacated wins" cause it tarnishes their once fearless leaders record. They aren't upset about having to give up precious scholly's...When the ruling on Bama's textbook so called scandal came out and it was announced Bama had to vacate wins, most bama fans were just fine with that. We understand that its ALL about recruiting and losing schollys is much more damning than some vacated wins.
    It annoyed me that the UA admins decided to appeal but i cant help that. BUT to see FSU fans act like having to vacate a few wins is just the most terriblist thing that ol meany NCAA could have done...just be thankful it wasnt worse...
  6. DanDaMan
    6. Posted by DanDaMan Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:16 am EDT

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    Somewhere in Happy Valley, JoePa is smiling.
  7. bigboo's bro
    7. Posted by bigboo's bro Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:52 pm EDT

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    Well, Bobby can rightfully take pride in all he has done for music appreciation among FSU athletes. They seem like a very cultured lot. Schools guilty of infractions like this should face much harsher penalties, including loss of all Bowl revenue.
  8. Patrick A
    8. Posted by Patrick A Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:51 pm EDT

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    Sorry, you're wrong here:
    "So it is now in Bobby Bowden's chase for the career wins record, which enters the 2009 season -- in all likelihood either his last or next-to-last season at Florida State -- one game behind Joe Paterno in actual wins: Bowden has 382 to JoePa's 383"
    Bobby Bowden does not have 382 "actual" wins. He has 381 "actual" wins. One of his wins is a 1983 loss against Tulane that they forfeited, and Florida State accepted (as an aside, Penn State also has a loss that was forfeited, but they did not accept).
    If you're going to make a distinction between "actual" and "officially recognized" you can't count the victory by forfeit.
  9. DK
    9. Posted by DK Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:27 pm EDT

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    I believe the NCAA is way off base in their target. Bobby Bowden is the goat here and other than exercising more than a great deal of restraint in dealing with a never ending parade of bad behavior he has really done nothing to deserve this. As for that never ending parade of bad behavior (not only the cheats, but those involved in any police or serious disciplinary action) I believe those student athletes deserve a life changing lesson. It used to be that students who cheated and got in trouble with the law faced possible expulsion from school. Now we beg students to behave with just minimal integrity so we can use them to stroke our collective egos. Why don't we DEMAND exemplary behavior from these people that we support, educate and hold up as heros? We should yank scholarships if they do not comply. We need to stop recruiting on the wrong side of the tracks and look for real leaders. There are talented kids out there with good personal records. Let's tell our coaches to find them and to discipline by sending a clear message that we will not put up with this bad behavior. There MUST be consequences for bad behavior. These bad eggs repeatedly let their team down by having to sit out games. There is never a possibilty to really depend on them. Their bad behavior is never-endingly disruptive to the program and it penalizes kids who stay between the lines. Talent is worth nothing if it is not dependable.
    While I am on my soap box: Athletes who go to the pros before they exhaust eligibility or actually graduate should be required to repay their scholarships. I understand all the reasons and I don't blame anyone for grabbing a star, BUT: The bonuses are big enough to require this. We got them there, they should be more than glad to pay back!
    This is not just about football. It goes across the board.
  10. Meghan M
    10. Posted by Meghan M Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:38 pm EDT

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    Wow- Erin- you are a PSU fan but say this: Joe is annoying the $hit out of me without designating a replacement or not giving it up earlier. Both do little to nothing for their teams except motivational speaking and sideline patrolling. You obviously don't know too much about Joe Paterno, his staff,or his program. He's not sticking around to oust Bowden either- not his style. Did you actually attend Penn State?

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