Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

Phil Steele preaches it, the Wall Street Journal made it a headline, and now the Big Ten blog The Rivalry, Esq., looking askance at the long list of top-10 projections for Penn State, has made offensive line experience the centerpiece of its skeptical take on the Nittany Lions as pending flop of the year:

Offensive Line: Last year's offensive line had three All-Big Ten selections. It was the best line in the Big Ten and one of the best at Penn State in the last twenty years. They're gone. This will be a problem. Phil Steele compiled the data of returning starts by offensive linemen. I love these numbers. Obviously, it doesn't mean that the team with more returning starts will beat the team with fewer starts, but it does give hard data for my plow horses.
[...]
Big Ten -- Returning Offensive Line Starts
Minnesota: 102
Iowa: 99
Indiana: 84
Michigan: 76
Purdue: 68
N'western: 64
Ohio State: 62
Mich. State: 52
Illinois: 49
Wisconsin: 49
Penn State: 39

Not good for Penn State, wouldn't you say?

The Wall Street Journal and Phil Steele would say, obviously, and it would be hard to disagree: One of the worst numbers in the country in any area can't be a positive.

But that's on top of a problem even diehard Lions have seen coming from a mile away: Penn State can't recruit offensive skill players. Scratch that -- PSU can recruit skill players, as evidenced by the extremely productive receiving trio of Derrick Williams, Jordan Norwood and Deon Butler the last four years. Those three alone accounted for 56 percent of the catches and 60 percent of the receiving yardage from 2005-08, shares that were consistent across all four seasons.

What contributions their replacements have made have been predominantly (though not entirely) of the garbage-time gimme variety, but inexperience is only one kind of problem. With the lead contributors gone, this is the moment Lion fans have been dreading since it became obvious that recruiting at the skill positions wasn't going to produce a clear heir apparent.

Aside from oft-suspended tight end Andrew Quarless, in fact, of the players who figure to touch the ball for the PSU offense on a regular basis this fall, none was rated higher than three stars by Rivals, and none had an offer from either of the other big recruiting guns in the Big Ten, Ohio State and Michigan. Only one, backup receiver James McDonald, chose Penn State over Notre Dame, and from his position on the depth chart, he doesn't figure to improve much on the seven catches he's hauled in over his first three years. The most productive returnees at receiver, Brett Brackett (right, in the Rose Bowl) and Graham Zug, are a converted quarterback and a walk-on recruited mainly by I-AA schools, respectively. The most talented receiver by those standards, Derek Moye, has three career catches, all in blowouts.

Lion fans will no doubt be the first here to point out that signing day projections are not destiny -- among the very few significant grabs to date by Brackett or Zug were big gains by both in last year's low-scoring win over Ohio State. (A 49-yard catch by Zug, one of his three non-blowout receptions of the year, set up a Lion field goal in the first half.) And neither of the two unquestioned stars of the attack, All-Big Tenners Daryll Clark and Evan Royster was particularly highly sought as a recruit; neither was Stephfon Green, who was productive as Royster's back-up. No doubt many concerns in Penn State circlues since January (and probably before) have already been quashed on that basis.

Still, even if you refuse to accept recruiting as a generally solid basis for forming expectations in lieu of better information, no top-10-ish team is as obviously vulnerable in as many areas as the Lions: Exceedingly green offensive line, entirely revamped secondary and mystery receivers who threaten to send last year's suddenly explosive offense scurrying back into its shell if they can't provide their potentially harried quarterback with a viable downfield outlet. I may wind up agreeing with them by the end of the summer, but the optimists so far either have a lot of faith in the Penn State brand, generally, in Clark and Rosyter, specifically, or in the persistent mediocrity of the rest of the Big Ten. (I guess playing Akron, Syracuse, Temple and Eastern Illinois outside of the conference really can take you places.)

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  1. Robert
    1. Posted by Robert Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:17 pm EDT

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    Last year's seniors came from a top 10 class. This year's seniors?? . . . . meh. The problem is no one's going to be able to figure it out until game 5 at Illinois because the schedule's so weak.
  2. Dunk
    2. Posted by Dunk Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:22 pm EDT

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    Please note that among that amazing triumvirate of receivers, only Derrick Williams had any recruiting hype at all coming in (#1 overall recruit though). You can claim that PSU "coached up" totally unwanted prospects Butler and Norwood to All Big ten quality. Same story with the lineman that left as well. And among the returning receivers you do not mention KR, WR, All-around Slash guy Chaz Powell was a 4star rated CB by scout. He had better per touch averages than Williams last year and is every bit as explosive as the probably "over-rated" derrick williams.
    Bottom line is that penn state talent wise has not lost a that much through graduation, the inexperienced guys were better rated than that guys that have left. Experience wise they are strong were you want them. Up the middle From QB-RB-C-DT-LB-FS( our only experienced returning DB).
  3. AgentUtah
    3. Posted by AgentUtah Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:06 pm EDT

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    As a non pie-eyed PSU fan, I hate that schedule. What does it do for your team, other than rack up wins for Paterno?
    Dunk, you make a good point about Powell. It will be interesting to see what he does this year. And forget Quarless. I'm done with him. Shuler will have more catches and more yards this season with less ability.
  4. CuseFanInSoCal
    4. Posted by CuseFanInSoCal Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:56 pm EDT

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    And any Penn State apologists who claim my Orange weren't sucky when they scheduled the game are talking BS. We were coming off our only decent season since the year after McNabb graduated, and only Dwight Freeney's superlative play on defense (in his final season at Syracuse) made that season possible.
  5. bigmike
    5. Posted by bigmike Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:22 pm EDT

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    Even with those questions Phil Steele has Penn State ranked #5-higher than anyone else in the link you provided. Which I admit I'm a little leery of but at that same time Phil is the best out there.
    Oh and Robert-it's this year's seniors that were from a top 10 class, not last year.
  6. Seph
    6. Posted by Seph Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:42 am EDT

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    No way this Penn State team is ready to Play Iowa in the Big Ten opener. Iowa will take another one away from PSU this year at happy valley moving Ferentz to 7-2 career against Penn State and JoePa.
  7. Tim F
    7. Posted by Tim F Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:16 am EDT

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    Thanks, Dunk, for noticing that only Williams was a highly touted recruit. Moreover, NFL sources in Seattle are saying Butler will have a significant impact in his rookie year based on his camp performances. Like meteorologists, recruiting "experts" are often right, but they are also frequently wrong, or at least didn't have the requisite information during their rankings.
    To put it gently, PSU's schedule is weak, but that might just give the O line and some of our WRs (including some highly ranked freshmen) needed experience. All that to say that I'm cautiously hopeful for this season.
  8. Rob
    8. Posted by Rob Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:11 am EDT

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    Man do i hate this guys blogs...even when he's bashing teams that I hate, they're always poorly written, show no knowledge of NCAA football history & exhibit almost no logic. Unfortunaltey, PSU is my team...which means i know a little about them (obviously way more than matt). I'll start by pointing out what a few other people have already stated....PSU almost never gets 4 & 5 star recruits, they don't even really go after them. They're average recruiting number is almost always at somewhere around 2.96. That's part of the beauty & respectability of PSU...they don't need the best highschool recruits in the nation, they make make men out of players who are 2 & 3 stars or who even just walked-on.
    I'll also point you're attention to the fact that two of the three receivers that you ("you" being matt hinton) made a big stink about (Norwood & Butler) weren't recruited at all really by anyone. Norwood was a walk-on from state college high school for christs' sake...and those guys became the #1 & #3 all time reception leaders at Penn State. A little hindsight here, please...
    As for the skill players...we have Clark, Royster, and Green all returning....wouldn't you say that that bodes well? I also like how no mention is made whatsoever about how Sean Lee, PSU's next in line to break all of the linebacker tackle records, returns this year. Just another biased anti-Big-Ten article.
    I think that the only legitimate concern/point that is made in this entire article is about the O-line, which will be almost completely green, and which does worry me quite a bit. That is by far out weakest point. However, take notice to the fact that the 4 star recruits we did land were almost all on the O-line (like Scranton's Eric Shrive....the best Offensive linemen recruit in the nation last year). And as for the weak schedule, yeah, what are you gonna do? We played OSU at OSU last year...we get em' at home this year, yes...Syracuse blows (although they did beat notre dame last year)...but they're in the Big East, which is a big-6 conference. It's not our fault that that conference is terrible (maybe write an article about that...but oh that's right...it wouldn't be bashing the big-ten, so forget it I guess).
    Listen Matt, stick to what you do best...writing your "dear diary" love letters about/to Tim Tebow. Exit the closet already...
  9. Rob
    9. Posted by Rob Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:21 am EDT

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    ...also, PSU starts a series with 'Bama next year. But I bet we'll somehow get slammed for that too in some "weak strength of schedule" way.
  10. bigmike
    10. Posted by bigmike Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:00 pm EDT

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    "PSU almost never gets 4 & 5 star recruits, they don't even really go after them."
    That's a load of crap. And I'm a PSU fan.
  11. roger s
    11. Posted by roger s Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:36 pm EDT

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    ohh rob.... psu wont get slammed for a weak strength of schedule when they open up against 'bama. they will just get slammed by a superior sec team. they will get slammed by a team with a roster full of 4 and 5 star guys, that "they don't even really go after." BS pal. They go after their share just like everyone else, but it's hard to drag a kid out of California or Texas or anywhere in the South for that matter, and bring them up to the northeast. Why is everyone always hating on Matt anyways? Seems like a good dude, and he gives us something to read during this awful time between spring ball and the start of the season, leave him alone. Rob should just go piss and moan on some big 10 homer blog about how everyone is out to get them.
  12. bigmike
    12. Posted by bigmike Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm EDT

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    "it's hard to drag a kid out of California or Texas or anywhere in the South for that matter, and bring them up to the northeast."
    Right, because there aren't any good players anywhere else in the country.
  13. Rob
    13. Posted by Rob Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:06 pm EDT

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    haha, guess i ruffled some feathers. Of course PSU goes after some 4 & 5 star guys. I guess what i should've said is that they don't recruit them nearly as hard as many other schools do (they certainly don't pay for them, as some schools are doing). PSU actually doesn't recruit very hard in general. Check out the rivals site, check out their recruiting stories & news, check out all of the 4 & 5 star players and their lists of "recruited by". It's all there. Florida, OSU, Alabama, USC, and Michigan's names pop-up all over the place. You almost never see PSU's name, and when you do, it's usually only next to the kids names who live in the northeast (specifically PA, NJ, MD, OH, and they're starting to hit CT alot harder). As for it being hard to drag a kid out of Texas (or really out of any state to play D-II NCAA football), that's about the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. Roger S obviously has no idea how college football recruiting even works (and I'm not your 'Pal' d-bag). Every major team is made up of kids from all over the country. True, a university will probably have more kids from that universities state, but just by having to even write that sentance I feel like I'm talking to a bus full of southern retards. As for the 'Bama series, we shall see. Both the Tide & the Lions have had stellar recruiting classes as of late (and recruiting classes & 40-times seem to be the only things that SEC fans put any stock in...). My long-time away guess would be that 'Bama wins @ 'Bama, and PSU wins in 2011 in Happy Valley. Either way, eat a shotgun 'Pal.' Anyway, truth be told, I was probabley a little harsh on Matt. His writing is fine i suppose, I was just all hopped up on coffee earlier this morning and had read my 3rd or 4th "big-ten this, big-ten that" article in a row, and no one seems to be ripping into the Big East, ACC, or Big-12 (they get blasted or nearly so by every major out of conference team that they play) for their crappy play and/or ridiculous academic performance/cheating scandals/etc. It's like the Big-10 is the only conference that isn't allowed to re-build or be "down" for a couple years and everyone has to be on their best behavior. Double-standard. Haters all. Hopefully matt accepts this half-apology. Seriously though...the Tebow articles are getting old...
  14. Rob
    14. Posted by Rob Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:15 pm EDT

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    ...and hopefully the entire Alabama team will be off of probation when it's time for that game. Jesus, what the hell's going on down there?! FSU vacating wins, 'Bama's entire team on probation for some texbook cheating thing, players getting dismissed all over the place....and the Big-Ten is who's really corrupting college football. Give me a break. Do they wear shoes to class down there?
  15. WestOfTheDC
    15. Posted by WestOfTheDC Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:58 pm EDT

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    Derrick Williams, Justin Norwood and Deon Butler had a TOTAL rating of 5 stars.
    Brett Brackett, Graham Zug and Chaz Powell had a TOTAL rating of 7 stars.
    I don't get it.
  16. aynsof
    16. Posted by aynsof Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:41 pm EDT

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    Unfortunately, the recruiting wars in the Big Ten will always be won by Ohio State... the only football school in a football crazy state of large population. Geography and isolation work against Penn State, and other schools must battle in state rivals for the slim pickins. Nowadays, the top recruits all get chummy at high school all star games and make pacts to go to school together. The day of coaches sitting down in a living room and promising to make a man out of their boy are long gone. Now even the moms know their boys are commodities and want to know about playing time and showcasing junior's talents.
  17. aynsof
    17. Posted by aynsof Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:44 pm EDT

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    The biggest factor in Big Ten success is an experienced quarterback. To date, only one starting freshman quarterback has won an outright Big Ten title.
  18. chepe007
    18. Posted by chepe007 Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:26 am EDT

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    Penn state over accomplished last year, this year they will under accomplish.they will lose to ohio state,michigan state,michigan,and at least one more.i still think coach jo pa is great,and will get the most from his players---"that play"
  19. roger s
    19. Posted by roger s Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:06 am EDT

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    I guess my pal Rob and I have some things to clarify. we are straight on the whole PSU recruiting 4 and 5 star guys, i get what you are saying that they seem to not go after them as hard, or as much as other programs. very good point. as for the comment about draging kids out of ca, fl, tx, etc., I was making a very general statement, because those are recruiting hot beds. there are plenty, I mean more than plenty of good players all over the country. my bad. but back to my buddy Rob, how are you just going to come at somebody you dont know and tell them to eat a shotgun. big tough guy on the message board huh? you're a douche.
  20. bigmike
    20. Posted by bigmike Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:44 am EDT

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    Just FYI Penn State currently has the #7 overall class on Scout, and #2 overall if you go by average stars.
  21. Dunk
    21. Posted by Dunk Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:07 pm EDT

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    You guys get too hard for Rivals and Scout. Some of you here know how it works but for those who don't the ratings are a whole lot of BS. Scout and Rivals can only rate the guys they see and usually that is the guys that go to their sponsored combines/camps/etc. There has been numerous articles about this recently - one quoting of Gamecock assistant claiming that he could make a guy 4 or 5 star just by what he relays to the "scouts" at Rivals/Scout. For example, PSU commit Adrian Coxson was a 4 star #23WR like two months ago. Now he is 5star #2 WR. WTF? How does that happen in two months. Exposure and playing along with the Rivals/Scout system. So there I just blew the lid off of Rivals/Scout ratings. You need to understand that there are tons of other players who A)can't/don't go the combines - #2. can't/don't correspond regularly with Bob Lichtenfels (Scouts NE guru) - and lastly there are tons of players who are just gamers and they don't train for combines they let their onfield play speak for itself which is what scout/rivals is weakest at evaluating. The best evaluators of football players are the coaches thats why you see guys like come out of "no-where" and contribute at PSU.
    We all enjoy reading Scout/rivals but don't take it as the absolute truth. Its essentially the Us Magazine of CFB recruiting.
  22. Concerned
    22. Posted by Concerned Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 pm EDT

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    Fans talk about recruiting like it is something schools can "go hard" at. It isn't wind sprints or three a days! You don't wear the recruits, or their parents and advisors, down! Kids already know which schools THEY are interested in. Woody Hayes used to pass on a list to other schools of the kids he didn't want. Schools like Purdue overachieve every year with unhyped kids. If Joe Fivestar tells you he is interested in USC, Florida, LSU, Alabama, and Oklahoma ... you don't need to bother touting the quality of campus life and the graduate school rankings at ol' State U! You leave a brochure and move on!

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