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Dr. Saturday

Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:20 pm EST

If someone in the Big 12 South has to be snubbed, at least they deserve to be snubbed the right way

By Matt Hinton

I don't how the BCS rankings are going to turn out when they're released this afternoon. But I do know that the next person who touts the sanctity of head-to-head results by writing something like, "... head-to-head results have to matter. Is Texas' titanic win over OU discarded just because it was 52 days ago?" or, "Texas is getting hosed. The one-loss Longhorns hung the only loss on the Sooners, beating them by 10 points on a neutral field," while completely ignoring Texas' head-to-head loss to Texas Tech, I'm going to flip. It's going to get ugly in my immediate vicinity. Such shortsighted misdirection makes my brain hurt.

There are three teams in this "quagmire" in the Big 12 South, about which all of the following is true:

None is "more true" than the others. All three teams are 10-1. They're all 1-1 against one another. This is not about Texas > Oklahoma on Oct. 11 because there's another two and half months' worth of information, much of it -- like Texas Tech > Texas on Nov. 1, and Oklahoma > Texas Tech on Saturday -- directly contradictory to that single afternoon in the Cotton Bowl. This is not a plea for Oklahoma. But whichever of the three you advocate to represent the South in the Big 12 Championship, it has to be based on all the information.

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  1. Double B
    1. Posted by Double B Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:03 pm EDT

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    Absolutely, 100% correct. It's an unfortunate situation that each team is projected to go 10-0 against everyone else and 1-1 against each other and they all happen to play in the Big XII South. Frankly, the fairest thing to do (although incredibly harsh) is to draw lots.
    I find it absurd that because Oklahoma destroyed Texas Tech, Tech is eliminated from any further discussion, and it goes to a head-to-head tiebreaker (the UT victory in Dallas). By that logic, Oklahoma actually HURT itself yesterday by beating up on Tech too much.
  2. Sam
    2. Posted by Sam Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:19 pm EDT

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    It would be an unfortunate set of circumstances if the OU-UT game were indeed the only basis used to settle this mess. The horns have lobbied all week long for this to be the case, ironically, because without an OU win over Tech, they would still be on the outside looking in. Additional irony can be drawn that if OU doesn't beat OSU this Sat in Stilwater, the horns still don't advance to play Missouri, meaning that they must root for OU again. Talk about talking (or cheering) out of both sides of your mouth.
  3. JB
    3. Posted by JB Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:18 pm EDT

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    I think all this is academic as A&M will probably make it 3 in a row against the longhorns.
    Appears things following normal progression to glory.
    Mack and longhorns should have learned by now, when it comes time to cash in
    their chips, Stoops and sooners will always be their banker.
    Why the hell us UT ranked above Tech. And why are the Sooners not # 1, I'm calling
    bs on the whole deal.
    I think its time to "bring it around town",
    I may still be a little liquered up from last nite in title town.
  4. Mark S
    4. Posted by Mark S Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:08 pm EDT

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    The coaches poll showed the Sooners a lot of love. Ironically, Texas' best bet might be for the Sooners to lose next week. They won't go to the Big 12 championship, but they will probably end up being ranked #2 behind Alabama or Florida.
  5. Gypsy
    5. Posted by Gypsy Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:44 pm EDT

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    Even more reason now for a PLAYOFF in major college football, and not just for the national championship! Texas will probably get snubbed out of the Big 12 championship game and the team they beat will end up going ahead of them! How can anybody think this is fair? Texas Tech is out because, 1) quite frankly, they got whipped and exposed, and 2) they lost late in the season. Texas is getting robbed and the polls are not taking the head to head games into consideration! College football is quickly becoming a joke!!
  6. Ryan R
    6. Posted by Ryan R Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:23 pm EDT

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    Yeah...this circle jerk sucks. But the fact that UT beat OU on a neutral field and lost to Tech in Lubbock at literally the last second needs to play a part in this. By putting OU above UT in any ranking, it's not because you're "getting all the information". You're assuming that since Oct 11, OU has become a better football team and UT has become worse. This is not the case, because if you don't remember, OU was spanking opponents nasty before the UT-OU game. No less nasty than they did after they lost. I have INSANE respect for the OU football team, and I honestly believe they could beat any team in the nation. Except UT. That was proven already. Whatever happens, a damngood team will end up in the Big 12 championship game and most likely the national championship.
  7. Jeffrey T
    7. Posted by Jeffrey T Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:43 pm EDT

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    you are correct. all the information should be used.
    the most relevant remaining information is the following:
    1) Texas beat OU on neutral field. Texas lost to Tech away.
    2) OU lost to Texas on a neutral field. OU beat Tech at home
    3) Tech beat Texas at home. Tech got destroyed by OU away.
    Texas is 1-1 without a home game. The other two teams won their home game and lost away from home. BCS computer algorithms take home/away into account for a reason. Road and neutral games are more difficult to win than home games.
  8. bigfan55
    8. Posted by bigfan55 Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:50 pm EDT

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    I dont know about how its going to turn out, but Im afraid that becfuse Texas had a bye. And that Oaklahoma Destroyed Texas Tech. That Oaklahoma will be ranked infront of Texas. And I also think Florida will jump in front of them too. It is unfair becuase Texas worke back into the title hunt. Know remember texas beat oaklahoma, and yes I know that texas got beat by texas tech. But that was becuse they were tired form facing Oaklahoma, Mizzouri, and Oaklahoma St. before that.
    My Rankings.
    1.Alabama
    2.Florida
    3.Oaklahoma
    4.TEXAS
    5.USC THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. Jeffrey T
    9. Posted by Jeffrey T Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:43 pm EDT

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    Oh, and Tech deserves to be thrown out of the discussion not because they got blown out last night but because they narrowly escaped losing to Nebraska at home, played A&M close for 3 quarters, and played an abominably atrocious non-conference schedule. They cannot escape their bad performances or their weak(er) resume.
  10. JB
    10. Posted by JB Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:18 pm EDT

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    RR, I to respect the horns, I just can't help ribbing some of the guys perpetually whinning about the injustice. Only thing that works is not losing.
    I wouldn't throw in my cards just yet. Chances of OU beating both Ok St and Missou probably no better than 60%.
    B12 title game in KC, will be like a home game for Missou and most likely very/very cold. You talk about a wild crowd. I to believe the UT and OU are the best teams in the country. I don't think the tide can hang with either given their anemic offense.
    Be very interesting to see how either match up against fla. Only positive is we'll see 2 excellent football teams finally getting to play without the B10 involved.
  11. Trey
    11. Posted by Trey Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 pm EDT

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    This isn't that hard to decide for me. Even though it pains me as a Tech fan to say, I think TTU is the one team you can safely exclude from the discussion. 1) Tech had the weakest schedule of the "Big 3" 2) Tech had the smallest margin of victory in the combined "big 3" games 3) Tech lost last, which is only a factor if you consider the BCS regular season to be a "playoff". All of these means Tech is the clear 3rd best team after my tiebreakers. From that point on it's simple head-to-head tiebreaker between UT and OU so UT should be the South winner.
  12. BB
    12. Posted by BB Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:19 pm EDT

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    get this! Texas beat ou on a neutral field , in an almost bowl game like senario. Texas goes in front of a hostile crowd and tech has it's game of the century. harrell has his best game ever and crabtree makes an unbelivable td that shouldn't have been. McCoy has brought Texas back to take the lead with 1.30 left. The only mistake that was made , was scoring too quickly. Tech goes to ou to play in front of a very hostile crowd , not only does Harrell have his worst game, But leach pulls several bonehead calls and digs the hole even deeper. Tech has never been in a position where they were rated that high and couldn't handle the pressure. Texas should still have the higher rating. After Texas beats a&m, O state beats ou and baylor beats tech, things will be back to where they belong.
  13. HarborPointe
    13. Posted by HarborPointe Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:18 pm EDT

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    And thus is the fallacy of the "Every Game Counts" argument against a playoff, which states that "With a playoff, games earlier in the season go for naught, and the champion ends up being merely the hottest team, not necessarily the best over the course of the season."
    Uh, is that not exactly the situation we have now, where losses in September are easily forgiven, but a loss in late November is an irreversible detriment?
  14. dethwing
    14. Posted by dethwing Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:42 pm EDT

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    To me, the non-conference schedule shouldn't be a part in deciding the big 12. Sure it's a part of the national scene, but this is not national. This is just the conference. and as such, I would say that since the 3 all beat the big 12 south, and split agaisnt each other, it should come down to who they played in the north. And clearly, beating missouri trumps beating nebraska. So....go horns, I guess.
  15. SpartanDan
    15. Posted by SpartanDan Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:11 pm EDT

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    Dethwing: Then maybe they should use something other than the BCS rankings - which are definitely national, not conference-wide - as their tiebreaker. I'd be fine with using some sort of aggregate strength-of-schedule from their other-division games (five points for playing the top-ranked team down to zero for the last-place finisher) as a tiebreaker, but that's not what the Big XII does, and asking the pollsters to vote on the basis that they're selecting a Big XII champion - when they're supposed to be voting nationally - is silly.
  16. Timo
    16. Posted by Timo Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:10 pm EDT

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    Since Big XII teams have done so well at home and poorly on the road, and since Texas beat Oklahoma State at home by 4 points, then if Oklahoma can beat Oklahoma State in Stillwater by more than four points, it would stand to reason that Oklahoma is a better team at this point in the season than Texas was when they beat Oklahoma State at home.
  17. gtne91
    17. Posted by gtne91 Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:43 pm EDT

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    dethwing,
    If they used the ACC tiebreakers, the Big12 South would be decided by the 5th tiebreaker, record of non-division opponents.
    Texas played Mizzou, Col, Kan 10-11, in conference currently.
    OK played Neb, Kan St, Kan 9-13.
    TT played ditto, 9-13.
    Mizzou plays Kansas so that will give an 11th win to Texas. If Neb beat Col, they would finish 11-13.
    Kan St is done, so Ok and TT would need Neb and Kan to both win to also get to 11-13. If Mizzou or Colorado won, Texas would go to the Big 12 championship. If this one ended in a tie, it would go to #7, which is BCS ranking, which puts us back in the same boat.
    But, at least there would be a chance of it being decided on the field, just the fields being located far from the south division.
  18. byron
    18. Posted by byron Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:15 pm EDT

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    speaking of all the facts texas did beat ou but the refs made terrible calls more going 4 tx than against so u can't really say they beat the sooners on a neutral field when the game was practically handed to them also texas played mizzou,and ok. state at home and lost on the road to tech. ou beat tech at home tech beat osu and ut at home and lost on the road to ou. i say if u can say the gators r second best in the country how can u not put the sooners past ut. florida lost at home to an unranked ole miss but now they r supposedly the second best in the country but yet texas beat ou in dallas which is in the state of tx how can u not say ou is better than tx at this pt. in the season to me its like boxing if u beat the guy who beat the guy then ur champ but i rather see ut and ou play again 4 the big one honestly
  19. byron
    19. Posted by byron Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:15 pm EDT

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    but that can only happen if fsu beats florida and florida beats bama oh and wit osu winning out ou and ut would b 1 and 2 and thats a dream of a national championship
  20. man29
    20. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    No No get outta here Ou fans..U guys got beat and now you want to jump back n the race..No !!! You got beat on a neutral site so save your thoughts cuz you guys don't deserve to be ahead of Texas..Why do we want to watch you OU guys go to another bowl and get beat up..Ou doesn't represent the Big 12 well in bowl games..It's a shame we are even talkn about a team who would rather put up points against lesser teams..Tech is a good team but we all know this was coming..Ou has yet to show me what they can do in tough games..They don't win tough games..Ou players and coaches get nervous when there in a tight game and it shows.. If Ou isn't blowing out the lesser team by half time they won't when the game in the second half because there not a good pressure team..Texas on the other hand has showed that it doesn't matter if there winning or not they will be in the game when the game is on the line.. Ou you got lucky against tech..U were at home..And again Ou hasn't had a stretch of games against good teams like Texas..Game after game Texas showed who they were when everyone was gunning for them not only cuz they were #1 but just because there Texas.. Ou didn't last one week at number #1 ..
  21. ltownokie
    21. Posted by ltownokie Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:29 pm EDT

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    We as college football fans use a poll based off of opinions. We have a situation where everybody beat everybody everybody else in the big 12 south. It all cancels out the argument of head to head wins, therefore every one should vote on who is the best team. Everyone has heard the expression they were the best team on that day. That is the case on OU vs saxet. Tell me one UT fan that wants to play OU again, exactly, there's not one. In my opinion, the Sooners are the best team in the big 12 south, barring a loss to zero state, they should represent the south and take care of Missouri.
  22. ltownokie
    22. Posted by ltownokie Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:29 pm EDT

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    Like texas beat up on that tough non conference schedule.
  23. man29
    23. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    Ou fans your team didn't last one week at #1..that says alot about you guys..Who lasted longer with there #1 ranking ? Texas..with everyone gunning for Texas they came 1 sec and a drop interception from walkn away from a tough stretch of games..When has Ou played top teams game after game.. Texas has already has beatn up on Tech and OSU and now Ou gets them after those tough games..Not Fair..Ou has not proved anything to me but that they can win the games there suppose to win..They have done nothing special..We all know that whoever wins the game in Dallas deserves all the talk and Ou didn't win that game !!! Sorry bobby and loser sooner fans but not this year cuz you don't deserve it !! And if you do go on to the Champ Game you will continue losing bowl games.. Ou is not the hottest team and if Texas played them again they Would BEAT UP OU AGAIN.. Stoops close your mouth before we stick a Horn In It !!!
  24. man29
    24. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    jay H..Yeah like we beat up everybody else including ya'll..lol...Ou non-conference games were all played at home.. get no respect for that..Go play Usc or something..Ou picked the right teams in the right conference...Texas would have beat up anybody Ou played..Try staying #1 Ou fans..lasted 1 week before you got a Horn in your mouth!!!
  25. ltownokie
    25. Posted by ltownokie Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:29 pm EDT

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    Timo you make more since than anyone else on here

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