Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

Most of the time, when a team winds up starting a true freshman quarterback, the process is just that: Winding, either through injuries or some other minor disaster. Even in the case of an obviously special athlete like Terrelle Pryor, Ohio State didn't want to throw him into the fire -- it was just obvious with Todd Boeckman's collapse at Southern Cal that the Buckeyes had no choice. Ditto pending No. 1 draft choice Matt Stafford, who only ascended to the top of Georgia's depth chart midway through the 2006 season by virtue of senior Joe Tereshinski's all-too-obvious limitations.

Michigan's situation is unique, then, in that the Wolverines are the rare outfit that is virtually certain to start a newbie, and has all offseason to brace for the impact: With four-star recruit Tate Forcier already on campus and only beleaguered walk-on Nick Sheridan on the returning depth chart, Steven Threet's decision to transfer all but guarantees Forcier -- or classmate Denard Robinson, a wannabe Pat White who show up in the summer -- will be the top signal-caller from the first whistle in August.

Usually, this means disaster. Rivals looked at the top freshman quarterbacks of the last five years earlier this week, and even if you disagree with their list (uh, Bo Levi Mitchell over role player Tim Tebow, huh?), it's hard to argue with this much: The pickings are slim. Only two true freshman quarterbacks on that list -- three at most, if you count Erik Ainge -- were unquestioned successes out of the gate, and Chad Henne and Robert Griffin are certainly the exceptions:

It's a mixed bag, except for this: All of the quarterbacks with good records -- say, at least eight wins, even in cases (like Leak and Stafford) when that was considered a disappointment -- were role players with a lot of talent around them, and even quality efforts by surprises like Griffin and Tuitama didn't do much to lift their teams out of mediocrity. The question, then, is whether Michigan is still stocked enough to surround Forcier with the kind of supporting cast that benefitted Ainge, Leak, Henne, Mustain and Stafford (Pryor is not exactly a realistic comparison). If you think so, based on available evidence at the Wolverines' skill positions, who, exactly, might you be referring to? Maybe Brandon Minor in the running game, but that's assuming a vastly improved offensive line.

Of course, success is all relative. In the wake of last year's Chernobyl-like meltdown, .500 and a middling bowl game with a true freshman starter who eventually solidifies himself as a long-term answer might suit Michigan just fine. If you compare the Wolverines to the handiest available precedent, Notre Dame's rebound campaign last year, that's as far as the Irish bounced off their 3-9 disaster, and that was with a sophomore with a full season under his belt and the world at his feet as a recruit. Forcier is very, very reminiscent of a less-hyped, more athletic Jimmy Clausen, another relatively polished California kid preceded by in the big-time college ranks by his older brother. Unlike Charlie Weis, though, who was coming off a pair of BCS bowl bids in his first two seasons in South Bend, Rich Rodriguez can't really afford another mulligan.

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  1. fiftycal2004
    1. Posted by fiftycal2004 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:59 pm EDT

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    Brady Quinn 4.7% completion??
  2. legal b
    2. Posted by legal b Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:48 pm EDT

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    It will be interesting to watch the train wreck that is Wolverine football under RichRod. While they should beat Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan,, Delaware State and Indiana, there is a chance that they could lose to Western Michigan. After all, unlike Michigan, Western Michigan did beat Toledo last year.
    A combination of an iffy offensive line, a freshman QB, inexperienced receivers and a shaky defense with a new coordinator could lead to another 3 win season for the Wolverines.
  3. glen
    3. Posted by glen Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:09 pm EDT

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    how is tyrod taylor not on there? he played a lot as a true freshman, then had his redshirt stripped after the ecu disaster, and he's been the heart of this team here in blacksburg since
  4. AgnosticTheocrat
    4. Posted by AgnosticTheocrat Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:47 pm EDT

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    You say Pryor is not a realistic comparison. Is this because you believe he is so immensely talented, or for some other reason?
  5. Landon C
    5. Posted by Landon C Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 pm EDT

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    michigan returns everybody on offense, gains a healthy number 2 wr, added depth on the 0-line, a second and third legitimate slot wr, and at least one qb that physically fits the offense (even if they are both freshman). all this for an offense that actually was pretty good at running the ball the second half of the year, despite not having a qb. the defense loses some d-linemen, but returns the most important player on defense (graham).
    with a relatively easy schedule (the big 10 stunk last year, and the top three teams all have significant personnel losses), the extremely high likelihood of last years incredible display of fumbling not recurring, and a second year in the offensive system, it would be hard not to have significant improvement. they're not going to win 10 games, but i'd expect them to be closer to 8 and 9 wins than last year's total of 3, even with a true freshman qb.
  6. Chewyfootball
    6. Posted by Chewyfootball Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:23 pm EDT

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    Michigan didn't play 14 games in 2004. And it seems that the lesson is that if you are a freshman on a good team, you can do well. If your team sucks, you will too. I'm betting you can find similar results if you just looked at "first time starters" instead of just freshmen.
  7. noahtahl
    7. Posted by noahtahl Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:39 pm EDT

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    now I know why the dr. wears dark glasses...pointing out how pryor and his 5-10 pass attempts per game warrants a no comp has to be one of the most intoxicated statements made by a so called "expert".
  8. Bryan Farris
    8. Posted by Bryan Farris Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:10 pm EDT

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    Anyone who just survived The Jarrett Lee Experience will tell you relying on a True Freshman QB is never a good idea.
  9. Word
    9. Posted by Word Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:07 pm EDT

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    Legal B - Michigan's receivers returning are - Mathews - Senior, Odoms - Sophomore, Stonum - Sophomore, J.R. hemingway - Redshirt sophomore, Terrence Robinson - Redshirt freshman. Out of those 5, four them played last year and one was injured. I wouldn't call them inexperienced as all have been coached a year under RRod and Mathews is a senior.
    As for a "shaky" offensive line - yes they were in the beginning of the season, but then improved a lot down the stretch. All of the linemen are returning along with a bunch of red shirt freshman who have been learning the system since last year. Take those guys plus a couple true freshmen coming in for depth and I think the line is actually pretty average - not "shaky".
    Most of those freshman QB comparison stats are apples to oranges. They are all about PASSING efficiency. Michigans QBs (now that there are no pro-style QBs on the roster) are going to be asked to run A LOT a la Pat White. Since Forcier and Robinson are great runners, I have to assume Rod is going to lean heavily on the run game - Im thinking a 70:30 run to pass ratio. That is good for Michigan considering their strength on offense is the RB position, which returns Brandon Minor (sr.), Carlos Brown (sr.), Michael Shaw (Soph), and Kelvin Grady (sr.).
    That being said, the defense will probably be average at best and Forcier will struggle at times. There are 4 guaranteed wins on the schedule and I can also see them beating Purdue on the road since they were mostly horrible last year. That gets it to 5 wins.
    5-7 sounds about right for a Michigan team that starts a freshman QB but returns everyone else on offense.
  10. legal b
    10. Posted by legal b Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:48 pm EDT

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    Word - I'll agree. Matthews, Odoms and Stonum all have experience. Each managed in his own way to contribute to the Wolverines 3 wins. And each managed in his own way to contribue to the Wolverines 9 losses. Matthews is a servicable possession receiver who hasn't shown any ability to get separation. Odoms has not shown any ability to hold onto the ball. And Stonum caught a whopping 14 passes. Not what I would want to hang my hat on if I was a Michigan fan.
    Last year's Michigan offense lead the nation in 3 and outs. Threet and Sheridan spent most Saturdays running for their lives because of the offensive line's inability to block. Those same guys return this fall. I expect to see more of the same from them.
    You couldn't beat Toledo or Illinois last year. Western Michigan beat both of them. And you couldn't beat Purdue. Their QB hung 48 on you in his first start. Good luck finding 5 wins with this group.
  11. skapanza
    11. Posted by skapanza Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:25 pm EDT

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    "Threet and Sheridan spent most Saturdays running for their lives because of the offensive line's inability to block. Those same guys return this fall. I expect to see more of the same from them."
    So offensive linemen do not improve between their first year starting and their second year after they have a full year of college play and training in the system under their belts? That's weird. I was pretty sure playing and practicing under a system helped you become better.
    In addition, while Threet and Sheridan were spending their time running for their lives, they were not doing what they were built to do, which is step back into a pocket and let fly. Forcier is a scrambler, and the most accurate dual-threat QB in this freshman class. He is used to running, as well as making passes on the run. I'm not calling 9 wins, but I would not be surprised with 7-5 and a bowl trip with the schedule they have. Also, Western Michigan can look forward to playing Michigan sans their QB and eight other senior starters from last year, uncluding both CBs and both safeties, so I wouldn't pretend that they will be the same team they were last year. It's a mistake Legal B make with both WMU and Michigan.
  12. mudvayne_bonesaw
    12. Posted by mudvayne_bonesaw Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:30 pm EDT

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    I've been a Michigan for 20 years, I don't much care Rodriguez yet. But at least he isn't like Charlie Weis, get all kinds of recruit talent and just run the team into the dirt.
  13. Teddy D
    13. Posted by Teddy D Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:19 pm EDT

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    Tyrod Taylor not being on the list is a joke.......through his first 2 season hes 18-3 as a starter. ....VT lost to Boston College and LSU last year while Sean Glennon was the starting QB.
  14. Tyler
    14. Posted by Tyler Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:47 pm EDT

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    "now I know why the dr. wears dark glasses...pointing out how pryor and his 5-10 pass attempts per game warrants a no comp has to be one of the most intoxicated statements made by a so called "expert"."
    TP threw 15 times a game.
    And Tate Forcier couldn't hold Terrelle's jock strap.
    At least Weis could recruit. RR can't even do that any better than past Michigan coaches.
  15. Matt H
    15. Posted by Matt H Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 pm EDT

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    Taylor had 134 attempts as a true freshman, apparently not enough to qualify for the NCAA's efficiency rating list, which is what I used to compile the numbers. His efficiency rating as a freshman was 119.7.
    Re: Pryor, he's not a fair comparison for Forcier because Pryor was the No. 1 recruit in the country and obviously is an exceptional athlete who would have started from day one at a lot of schools, including Michigan. Forcier's projections/ceiling (nor almost any other quarterback's of the last five years) is nowhere near Pryor's. Pryor also stepped into a very good situation with Beanie Wells and OSU's defense. He attempted 149 passes in the 10 games he started, so that's about 15 per game.
  16. James P
    16. Posted by James P Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:28 pm EDT

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    Last season Michigan played a (walk on) sophomore and a red-shirt freshman at quarterback. They went 3-9. But the real story was the o-line, which was very young and inexperienced. I believe only one starter on the o-line. As such, Michigan was unable to establish a running game and defenses were able to keep Michigan's offense in abysmal territory for most of the season. Forcier and company will be only part of the story. Will the o-line be dramatically improved over last season? If they can make gaps for the running game, then the offense should be dramatically improved, despite a true freshman quarterback. After all, their running backs have depth and experience.
    Now on the other hand, they have a new defensive coordinator and the defense was definitely suspect last season. And they lose a few starters.
    And don't forget, they have veteran backup Cone.
  17. Travis
    17. Posted by Travis Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:18 pm EDT

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    The o-line was awful at the start of the season. The second half, they really came together and it showed with the RBs numbers. UM put up 202 yds rushing on the #8 rushing defense in PSU. 111 yds on #18 rushing defense, tuos. UM also put up 341 total yards on #11 defense, Utah.
    A healthy Brandon Minor next year should help in the transition. I don't think RR will rely so heavily on the run though. I think RR will use a lot of the short passing game, and try to go downfield when the defense is sleeping. I think the balance will be around 60/40 to the run. Also, having a healthy T. Robinson and J. Hemingway will help. UM has the offensive weapons, let's just hope Tate or Denard can spread the ball around effectively.
  18. Travis
    18. Posted by Travis Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:18 pm EDT

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    Another thing to add. UM put up 232 yds rushing on Minnesota with 435 yds of total offense. 177 yds rushing on Purdon't. Again, second half of the season was much improved on the offense.
  19. skapanza
    19. Posted by skapanza Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:25 pm EDT

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    @14:
    What an asinine statement. I mean, I know it's the internet, but come on, try to at least have a fact to back up your argument. Two top-10 recruiting classes in his first two years, including a first year where he had about a month to finish off the 2008 class? A #7 finish this year? Notre Dame is 21st for 2009 recruiting, so there that little gem goes. "Not being able to recruit any better than previous Michigan coaches" isn't that harsh of an assessment either, if you take two seconds to think about it.
    Finally, why not give Tate a chance to play before knocking him? Besides, the last we saw of Pryor was him running out of bounds two yards short of a first down on another drive-killing 3rd down play vs. Texas.
  20. JAY30
    20. Posted by JAY30 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:31 pm EDT

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    Under the radar posted less than a minute ago | comment
    in my sons jr and sr year he received tons of letters from all the pack 10’s (except usc)and beyond all over to be honest, he finished very strong his sr yr and it’s as if he fell below the radar, it is very disappointing for all of us family, school, community etc. he was league mvp, cif, broke school records set by former usc player chauncey washington, a decent student 1st team offense, all area…and nothing we got him a website for him to gain additional exposure, and the waiting game is kinda over he has come to realize it’s probably going to be jc.they are beating down our doors!! www.johnwhitehighlights.com chk it out. (still hopefull)
    tags: need a running back
  21. Andrew
    21. Posted by Andrew Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:00 pm EDT

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    landon c
    Are u dumb or just blind and deaf! Michigan win 9 games this year? have you even looked at the schedule. Good luck on that one man LMAO!!
  22. Art
    22. Posted by Art Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:58 pm EDT

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    For Michigan, 3 victories should be in the pocket: Western Mich, Eastern Mich, Delaware St. Then there are the middies: Indiana, Purdue and maybe Iowa and Wisconsin. Finally they will lose against ND, Mich St, Penn St and Ohio St. If they are able to beat two out of the 4 middies, their record should be 5-7. OL will be improved but still inexperienced and adding the lack of experience at the QB will result in that record. So Michigan fans should brace for another difficult season. Things will get brighter once RR settles the team into his system; do not expect a National Champ as RR never accomplished that feat with WVU.
  23. dragon43078
    23. Posted by dragon43078 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:47 pm EDT

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    Every QB is bailing on Rich Rodrigues. His plan to change the style of play does not fit with the players he has on the team. They were built for Big Ten smash mouth football. Not his "lets run around and let everyone get the ball" style. He needed to adapt HIS style for a few years and recruit the type of players he wanted and slowly add it to the way Michigan has always played. He wants too muuch change too quick and the players already there and not the ones for it. He is going to have at least 3 more bad losing seasons. He might be decent in 5 to 7 years, but until then, Michigan football will be a punchline in a joke.
  24. travism
    24. Posted by travism Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:21 pm EDT

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    Every QB that was recruiting by Lloyd Carr is bailing on RichyRich. You know...the pocket passer known for running pro set that Carr ran. And if you watched any Michigan games last year you could see that Threet was garbage. Inaccurate and no arm strength. Any QB that is a duel threat wold love to come to Michigan. That's why they landed one of the best in Tate. I think that if the RB's stay healthy they will be a 7-5, 8-4 team. In 2010 with Carr's team getting out and Rod's guys coming in they compete for the Big Ten title.
  25. dragonboatusa
    25. Posted by dragonboatusa Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:47 pm EDT

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    #22- According to that logic, no coach could win a championship unless he has done it before. Therefore, no coach should ever win a championship.
    #23- This is a college program. His program should be set in no more than 2 years. Kids normally cycle through every 3,4 or (in redshirt cases) 5 years. Within 2-3 years, Coach Rodriguez should have experienced players, from great recruiting classes, at all positions.

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