Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:14 pm EST

Bradford, McCoy and Tebow in perspective

The crop for Saturday's ceremony for that trophy they give out every year -- you know, that one, in New York -- might be the most generic, boring crop of candidates you could possibly imagine: Hey, let's pick the quarterbacks off the top three teams! They were on TV all the time!

But however tired you are of hearing about them, you can't deny Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow this: They're also the most prolific class of finalists in the last two decades.

I don't know if it seems that way off the top of your head, but just compare these three quarterbacks to the dozen quarterbacks who have been named "Most Outstanding" since 1988 (plus a couple legendary second-place finishers who could have won it, Vince Young and Peyton Manning). This is easy, since the trophy's been won almost every year since 2000 by a quarterback whose team is playing for the mythical championship (with the exception of Carson Palmer, Tim Tebow, Reggie Bush in 2005, who -- like many of his colleagues -- is lucky the vote came before the bowl game). If you ignore how often they throw (sorry, Andre and Ty) and account for what happens when they do, this is how the trio from 2008 stacks up against best quarterbacks of the past two decades (order is according to pass efficiency rating, with the best number in each category in red):

Hey, a clean sweep. By the numbers, any of the three finalists this year could have been (maybe should have been) the favorite in just about any other year for the past 20 years.

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  1. gtne91
    1. Posted by gtne91 Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:43 pm EDT

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    Whats with the ? for Peyton's rating?
  2. Vince Mullins
    2. Posted by Vince Mullins Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:38 pm EDT

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    Of course not - that is the heart of Web 2.0.
  3. Troy
    3. Posted by Troy Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:12 pm EDT

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    Also, you know, not Tebow 2007. The Capital One Bowl is very much not for the MNC.
    I remember last year when Tebow won with the "best passer efficiency rating of any QB to win the Heisman," I had more than one friend at UF who misinterpreted that to mean he had the best passer efficiency rating of any QB ever. It was then that these people learned the true meaning (or lack thereof) of the Heisman.
  4. AstateEditor
    4. Posted by AstateEditor Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:48 pm EDT

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    Doc,
    Where would Graham Harrell's numbers this season fit into your chart? Are they comparable to his quarterbacking counterparts?
  5. Adam J
    5. Posted by Adam J Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:17 pm EDT

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    carson palmer was in the orange bowl, not the title game (fiesta), in the 2002 season.
  6. Ryan G
    6. Posted by Ryan G Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:38 pm EDT

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    You have to also look at who they have played and the rushing stats.
  7. Brian
    7. Posted by Brian Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:13 pm EDT

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    You've got a few of the numbers wrong. I think you confused McCoy's YPA with Zac Robinson (who's right beneath him in the rankings). Robinson's is 10.4, McCoy's is 9.2. I'm not sure where you got his TD%, which is actually 8.5% (much much lower than 11.5%, you must have gotten that confused with David Johnson of Tulsa, who's right above McCoy in the rankings) You need to then fix you charts to accurately reflect the red highlight numbers.
    I agree that all three candidates are phenomenal QBs, but if these are indeed were the only criteria for selecting, then I wish we could have seen Zac Robinson in NYC, or David Johnson of Tulsa.
    All this makes me think it's almost coincidental that these three guys have the best stats. All play in a spread, which inflates completion percentage (while not necessarily making the QB more effective) and relies on superior athleticism of the receivers to gain yards after catch. I think we can agree that these three finalists had far superior talent surrounding them than a player like Robinson or even Harrell. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's still just the QBs of the three best teams.
  8. Matt H
    8. Posted by Matt H Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 pm EDT

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    Thank you. The chart has been corrected for McCoy. The numbers remain amazing.
  9. LongTrans
    9. Posted by LongTrans Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 pm EDT

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    @8: So Harrell has Crabtree, and McCoy has more talent surrounding him? Not only does McCoy not have any one great receiver, he has NO running back. The RB position was a revolving door all season long. How do you like that for pressure.
    It's too bad Harrell wasn't invited though. He deserves to get out of Lubbock for at least a weekend.
    Colt's going to win this one. He is definitely the most deserving with what he accomplished. They're all great, but as VY said: the trophies coming "All the way to AUWWSTIN TEXAS BABY! It's just too bad we don't get to bring the NC trophy back too. We most definitely deserved it. Maybe next year we'll schedule the Citadel towards the end of our season too.
    Congrats Colt!
  10. Clam
    10. Posted by Clam Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:57 pm EDT

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    Harrell's success this year may have as much to do with playing against questionable non-conference schools and having the biggest offensive line in the conference than having Crabtree. He should be watching the presentation from home and invite Brian Johnson from Utah to NYC.
  11. man29
    11. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    post 10 is on point..If mycoy had the weapons all the other qb's have then the record for points would be 70 not 60 by bradford..Texas scored 45 points on Ou without a first round pick other than maybe Mycoy that says alot...Ou had NO Confidence in Bradford when they decided to try a fake punt..Texas didn't try a fake punt!!! Bradford has maybe 2 or 3.... 2nd round nfl running backs and recievers.....running backs ..brown, murray, iglesis the wideout.., a 1st round tight end..maybe the first tight end taken in the draft..gresham..and this tricky try to catch you off guard offensive system..lol........................Harrel at Tech has a top 10 reciever in crabtree and another tricky gadget offense................................and robinson at ok st...has a 1st round tight end..predagrew, a late first or early second round wide-out in dez bryant...zack robinson also has a 2nd or 3rd round nfl running back in kendall hunter........Timmy T.....He has all kinds of weapons...1st round wideout in Percy Harvin..and a really good offensive line..Tevo also plays in a crazy wideopen offense but it's not like tech's and Ou's offense they don't try and trick you florida just gives you alot of formations.............Mycoy had none of those nfl weapons...Colt has a young offensive line..remember his old star running back now plays for the (chiefs) and his star tight end now plays for the (packers)..Jamal Charles who left early..And tight end Jermicheal Finly who left early....Colt's true tight end got hurt in what the first game of the season.. Blaine Irby.....So he also had no tight end and we all know a good tight end is a qb's best friend like terrel owens said..(ah laTony Romo) lol.... Texas was suppose to finish 4th in the Big 12 by the voters due to it's young team and should have finished 1st alone at the top..but stoop soo low lil bobby tricked the computers and skewed them...So to me this heisman thing is a no-brainer..Mycoy should win it..but like everything else I'm thinkn they will skew Texas again and give it to bradford..(ah la Reggie bush) when Vince young should have won that heisman..So I hope they don't cheat Mycoy like they did Vince baby...Bring it back to Auwstin Baby...lol..Colt the Blood Clot Mycoy for Heisman !!! He gave all the head coaches in the big 12 and across the nation a blood clot on there head cuz he was great this year !!! Colt is my Heisman no matter what the silly bias voters have to say... Hoock em Colt
  12. LongTrans
    12. Posted by LongTrans Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 pm EDT

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    Do this: All experts say Tebow is out of the picture this year. So you have McCoy and Bradford left. Switch McCoy to Oklahoma. They go undefeated no doubt. Put Bradford on Texas, 9-3 at best.
    Colt wins it this year.
  13. dan g
    13. Posted by dan g Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:03 pm EDT

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    I am so f'ing tired of people saying that Colt McCoy (or Texas in general) doesn't have any talent. They get to hand pick from the best recruits from the best state to produce high school football players in the whole damn country. If there's no talent there that's more of a telling factor about how bad a coach Mack Brown is. How bad do you have to be to win 10 games a year for the last 8+ or however many years it is now?
  14. man29
    14. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    On point...post 13..bradford would have folded under colt's pressure at texas this year with no true nfl weapons..Right on point with that..Hook em
  15. man29
    15. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    post 14..that was dumb..that shows how good Mack Brown is..Mack stays in Texas to get 90 percent of his players..All the other states with good teams are headed to Texas every year to try and steal talent from coach brown..dummy..Alot of these schools are right around the corner..Bob stoops..leach..Ok st..All these teams have alot of players from Texas on the team rosters..That's why BOB STOOP SOO LOW WENT TO OU SOO THAT HE COULD FEED OFF OF TEXAS AND FLORIDA TALENT MAINLY TEXAS TALENT..You can't get all the good players every year..Alot of players in Texas want to go out of state because Texas Football is the best thing all across the country and school are just chasing them around and Texas won't cuz Texas is TOP NOTCH..Texas football is the best..Florida has more speed but not the best and most talented players.. CALIFORNIA HAS GREAT TALENT ALSO BUT IT"S HARD TO TELL HOW GOOD THEY ARE PLAYING IN THE WACK PAC -10..TEXAS BABY !!!
  16. man29
    16. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    See you after the beat down..nokie the crookie cookie..lol..Your name says it all..lol
  17. JB
    17. Posted by JB Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:18 pm EDT

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    I can't believe theres still more UT bull [profane] going on. Haven't been on in a wk and I see gman still popping off.
    Anyone that knows me knows my belief in the Sooners as the greatest team and institution of all time, however,
    after watching Tebow against Bama, I was extremely impressed.
    Strikes in late 3rd and 4th were unbelieveable. Not set, moving firing 35yds at the last minute, right in stride,
    pretty spectacular.
    I'm with leech, its all a bunch of BS, Harrell orchestrating drive and closing the deal against UT, what he's done for team, he should be their. Everybody forgets Sooners practice against that every day. UT just now on the up after coping OUs off playbook, but still having to rely on scrambling and intermurial type plays.
    Be very interesting to see teams line up and see who will dictate. One thing for sure, if fla thinks OUs defense soft
    their going to learn a painful lesson. McCoy Granger, Beal, English, will eat them up. All these great SEC denfenses will pare in comparison to the atheletes and speed they will face.
    Offensively, no need to project. Fla won't get to QB with front 4, will have to force issue on blitz. OUs D will get to Tebow on a 4 man rush more than visa versa.
    Should be a great game.
    Go Buckeyes.
  18. man29
    18. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    Like Texas met Ou and gave them the beat down..lol...I can meet you half-way and give you one...If you only knew who you are talking too..lol..I will crush you nokie crookie cookie..lol...Get outta here punk before you be my girlie girl..lol...Cuz I know your soft and dumb by your posts...lol
  19. man29
    19. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    post 19...U KISSN UP TO LIKE THE PAPER CHAMPIONS FLORIDA DOESN"T LIKE Oklahoma!!!..TEVO said his Heisman vote will go to Colt..And bradford said last night I would vote for the guy sitting next to me Tevo..Tevo laughed it off cuz he knows bradford like you and little bobby are kissn up right before the beat down..lol...Ou sucks quit tryn to be friends this is for the whole thing..That's why Ou can't win a bowl game losers..There to friendly to the teams who can actually give them a beatn..Texas, Florida...Mycoy last night just laughed as funny lookn bradford talked..Colt knows bradford is one hit away from foldn up again like in October in dallas..PAPER CHAMPIONS LIKE I SAID LOSER SOONERS....Post 19...go ohio st all you want but Pryor will be lucky to walk out to the game against Texas...Texas defense is going to break him..His head was down after the game against penn st..lol...Texas poses alot more problems for ohio st than sorry penn st that will most likely be crushed by USC..USC wanted to play a top notch program..Texas..they don't even want penn st due to the beatn they gave Ohio st..So get outta here wit your sorry team..Nobody cares if you get your palm palm out for ohio st cuz you'll need all your cheer leaders..lol.......Ou and crookie cookie nokie post 16.. bring your palm palms and your cheerleaders cuz lil bobby and the paper champions will need a hug after jan 8th..lol Cuz everyone will say the same thing about Ou..Paper champions can't win the big game...Again...lol
  20. man29
    20. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    post 19..you need to borrow nokie cookie's glasses cuz you must be blind..Ou doesn't have a four man rush..Your dumb...they don't have a defense at all ask Colt !!! 45 points..Does anyone here know football? Ou's entire blitz package can't even measure up to Florida's four man rush....Florida's Spikes was second to Texas's Orakpo for the award for best defensive player and he was in Ou's backfield all game in dallas..loadholt couldn't keep up with Orakpo soo he won't stop Spikes either..Go gators and Texas fight..
  21. man29
    21. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    Not one defensive player from Ou was a stand out this year..A Fact..
  22. Jimmy J
    22. Posted by Jimmy J Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:35 pm EDT

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    UTfans...get ready for another snub. Your closet QB(and his recently out of the closet pal girlie man) will not
    win the Heisman this year. The media will decide the winner on this one..and the media wants the National title game to be heisman winner versus heisman winner. Take a GOOD HARD LOOK at that list and think objectively. Take out the four current candidates and there are 13 QBs listed over the years....3 are in the NFL....and only one is actually playing in the NFL..That being Peyton. Vince and Matt are benched in favor of well adjusted veterans and will probably melt the rest of their career away sitting on the bench (no more than 2 years more for either of them..and Vince didnt even win the award but he was a media darling). I cant name any names but the best collegiate player was probably on a team that has a losing record or went7-5 or worse but since the media doesnt highlight mediocre teams,they are not considered for such an award. The heisman trophy is a joke and has been for the last 20 years. Before anyone (UT idiots) try to discredit my opinion....Graham Harrell will not be drafted by any NFL team but at least he will be spared the humiliation of being played up by the media and its pawn voters...while Bradford and McCoy will be exposed once they are drafted and cant produce at the next level..if they are drafted at all..which will be even worse. Tebow stands a chance at the next level..but it wont be playing QB. Tebows best shot is to beef up a little more and switch to Tight End..because there isnt much call for a 220 pound QB who can lower his shoulder and deliver a blow...career wouldnt be very long in the NFL.. But a Tight end with no fear who will run routes across the middle with no hesitation will make it..OU and UT have not put a QB into the NFL that actually made a career out of it..Vince has one foot out the door already...Chris Simms..please..daddy;s name got him where he went..and that wasnt very far.none of OU's winners made it very far into the NFL if at all. The best collegiate player should be a natural who will go into the NFL and shine there as well. But the heisman has become the biggest piece of politicized garbage in America. Harrell will sign as a free agent and disappear in the shuffle...Bradford and McCoy will be drafted and exposed as frauds in the NFL (and they claim any Tech QB is merely a system player HA HA). Both players are above average college players..but they are no where near the best players in the NCAA. The "best collegiate player" isnt a QB and isnt even in consideration for the heisman
  23. Jimmy J
    23. Posted by Jimmy J Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:35 pm EDT

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    Ok...make that 4 players on that list that are still in the NFL...missed Palmer...but still the same issue...where is the quality NFL players?
  24. Jeffrey
    24. Posted by Jeffrey Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:10 pm EDT

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    Reggie Bush/USC Did the NCAA give USC an Exemption on Agents in the locker room, family payouts, hanging out with Reggie and those unreported freebies,etc..? No wonder they get their choice of blue chips. I guess the rest of the PAC 10 didn't qualify for that exemption. USC is a disgrace and so is their Coach.
  25. man29
    25. Posted by man29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm EDT

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    post 23 where are you from..You need to think of some better rags then go get you one..Girlie Man is soo dumb and sounds like something a women would say..Are you a woman post 23 Slimmy Jimmy..lol..Jim is a old fashion name soo I know you suck and look a fool..Why did your mom name you Jimmy? Call Jimmy? lol that sounds funny you must work on a farm or on cars? lol..Jimmy Jam that is out right drunk of you to think or say...That's the whole thing about the NFL you dummy !!! lol..It's a gamble you don't know who will be good or not..Who will get hurt or not..You also have to look at what team you go to when you get drafted fool..If you go to a decent team you probably will do good...It's simple..lol...Vince will be back he is still very young and while he's been in the NFL he's had to change too much..Tenn has had several different offensive coor.....and along with that, no real threat at wideout ..the running backs are just now showing how good they can be ...They weren't running good when young was starting qb that's never good for a young qb that wasn't in an NFL offense and struggles when he has to win a game passing on the NFL level right now.. And chris sims didn't get go to the NFL off of his fathers name..He won alot of games at Texas and has a great arm..yes he stunk up a few big games but for sure he would get picked up cuz he can throw the ball..He was starting before he got hurt dummy...that shows he can play in the NFL.....now Ou (chokelahoma) on the other hand has no real qb's in the NFL at all..name one ? So I'm sure Ou folks will try to say Texas doesn't have a good qb in the NFL but that's soo dumb..And I think colt will have a better NFL career due to his ability to move around in the pocket and escape and run when he needs to..colt is very accurate on the run and staying another year at Texas can only help him in being an even better qb in the NFL when he goes..Bradford is good but I think he has to go the right team to do well in the NFL...(ah la atlanta falcons qb)...he has 2 good running backs..but the lions, browns, bengals, oakland, cheifs..they all suck and nobody would want to end up with them but somebody will and they will suck because of it..jamarcus russell was first pick and look at him he looks like he can't even play in college now..lol..Mcfadden was suppose to be good..lol..look at him..running back jones for dallas ws suppose to be good and look at him hurt for most of the season..So to all you think you know about football but you've never played or even know anybody in the NFL SHUT UP !!! The NFL IS A CRAP SHOOT AND YOU NEVER KNOW HOW GOOD A PLAYER WILL BE AND WHAT ACTUALLY DRIVES HIM...Peyton Mann would be soo sorry had he got drafted by the Texans !!! lol..A fact !!! He got picked by the colts and the colts for years built around the qb..with running backs ..great wideouts...lineman....Put peyton in oakland and see what happens..So leave young qb's alone until they get some good years under there belts before you go poppin off at the mouth with dumb thoughts.. No MORE DUMB THOUGHTS PLEASE YA'LL ARE Killing ME.. Tevo could play a few positions..I'm a texas fan but he is very good and big..

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