Dr. Saturday - NCAAF

The newly launched AnnArbor.com, more energetic Web successor to the Ann Arbor News, caught up this weekend both with Lloyd Carr, newly minted playoff advocate, and Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, who quickly crushed Carr's modest vision of a four-team bracket beneath his spotless wingtips at a charity golf outing. Delany was also unusually frank about the Big Ten's image problem in big games:

"In any particular time frame, could be three years, could be five years, could be two years, you could get your ass kicked, OK?" Delany continued. "It can happen. We’re not playing Little Sisters of the Poor. We’re playing the best football teams in their region.

"So were we 1-6 (in bowl games) last year? Yeah. Were we 0-6 in the BCS in the last (three years)? We were. Those are the facts. But take me from 2000 or 1997 to 2005; I remember when Michigan played Ohio State [in 2006]. We were the toast of the town, one versus two, game of the century."

That's probably true on both counts: These things are cyclical, especially due to small sample size over a two-to-three-year window, and the Big Ten has held up just fine over time. Michigan-OSU in 2006 was pretty epic on all fronts. There is very, very scant evidence for any big-picture issues prior to Florida pantsing Ohio State in the '07 mythical championship game.

But the looming issue I keep returning to going into this season is how few opportunities the Big Ten has had for its name-brand programs to play "the best football teams" in any region, an issue here only because of the ongoing struggles in bowl games. Ohio State caught a lot of heat in 2007, apparently justified after the championship loss against LSU, for playing a non-conference schedule highlighted by a win at Washington (final record: 4-8). Penn State's blowout over Oregon State last September looked good in retrospect, but at the time, with OSU coming off an opening night loss at Stanford and still two weeks from conquering USC (and more than a month from finally entering the polls), it looked more like a confirmation of the Beavers' descent.

And that, along with Michigan's upset over Florida in the '08 Capital One Bowl, are by far the Big Ten's best non-conference wins of the last two years. Including Lions over Beavers, the conference was 1-6 against non-conference teams that finished in the AP's final top-25 last year after going 1-4 against the final poll in 2007. Last year's regular season highlights included Utah upsetting Michigan; Oregon holding off Purdue; Missouri hanging 52 on Illinois; and of course, USC nearly wiping Ohio State off the face of the earth.

The issue this year is the same: Assuming Minnesota and Purdue do not shock Oregon and California, the most winnable games against any team with top-25 credentials going into the year are Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue's annual dates with Notre Dame -- and if the Irish struggle in those games, the resulting meme won't be "Wow, the Big Ten is succeeding against Notre Dame." It will be "Notre Dame still sucks." It just doesn't mean much anymore to beat ND, a killer turn when almost a third of the conference traditionally bases its non-conference schedule around the Irish as the quality "national" opponent.

That's not to single out the Big Ten for deficient scheduling -- on the whole, its non-conference schedules aren't substantially different from those in the SEC or Big 12, and not much removed from the Pac-10. But those conferences are winning bowls and other big games and aren't facing the same persistent questions about their inherent strength. It seems clear enough that the Big Ten has one big chance to break the current cycle -- even Penn State knows its national ambitions hinge in part on Ohio State beating USC on Sept. 12 -- or face another yet round of condescension heading into the bowl season.

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  1. Michael F
    1. Posted by Michael F Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:56 pm EDT

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    The simple fact is that we need to win our bowl games. It doesn't help that almost no one, including the Big 10, has been able to beat USC at home for the last five years, or that in several of those years we've sent our second best team to play them. It doesn't help that Ohio State backed into the national championship game two years ago after every better team in the nation had an upset loss.
    No one remembers Wisconsin trashing Arkansas or Michigan beating Florida when the highlight of the bowl season is OSU getting beaten.
    The Big Ten, as much as anything, has been a victim of OSU's success. If no one can beat OSU, and then OSU has 2-3 bad games out of conference, suddenly the rest of the conference looks like crap. It could have been just that OSU showed up fat from awards show food (2007) and then ended up in over its head (2008) the year after, instead of falling off the face of the planet like Florida did that year.
    But those are excuses. If the Big Ten wins some bowl games this year, it won't matter any more.
    As an interesting aside - if USC gets a shot at the championship the last couple years (and for the last two years at least they've had a pretty strong argument) I have a gut feeling that the Big Ten's Bowl game record would look quite a bit different.
  2. mejunglechop
    2. Posted by mejunglechop Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:00 pm EDT

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    We're still counting Utah over Michigan as an upset?
  3. 25 is the number
    3. Posted by 25 is the number Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:02 pm EDT

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    Big Ten is a joke to football.
  4. 25 is the number
    4. Posted by 25 is the number Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:11 pm EDT

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    Big Ten is a joke to football.
  5. Robert
    5. Posted by Robert Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:11 pm EDT

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    "And that remains by far the Big Ten's best non-conference win of the last two years."
    A 4 loss Michigan team going to Florida to beat the Gators even though they were -4 in TOs was pretty spectacular
  6. JR
    6. Posted by JR Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:34 pm EDT

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    "Big Ten is a joke to football."
    Consider the source. From your little icon, looks like you are an Arizona fan. Yeah, a real hot bed for college football. And the Pac-10? Outside of USC, it royally sucks. The most god-awful football to watch as well. Idiot.
  7. Blueandwhite2009
    7. Posted by Blueandwhite2009 Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:07 pm EDT

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    Haha! Big Ten is a joke? Definitely, I'd love to see Arizona even try and compete for Pac 10. I dont even know why they play football in the Pac-10 and waste everyone's time. They should just award USC the championship in week one and tickets to the Rose Bowl, Every.Single.Year. Now that kind of competition, to me, is a joke. So please go ahead and direct your energy towards figuring out drawbacks of your own conference before bashing the Big Ten. The truth is that we are so tradition rich, our stadiums are mammoth, and our programs both academically and in athletics sound, and all of you hjust hate us. So when was the last time a PAC 10 team PACed their luggage to go to BCS bowl and win it? When was the last time PAC 10 even sent two teams to BCS bowls? Ha!
  8. Blueandwhite2009
    8. Posted by Blueandwhite2009 Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:09 pm EDT

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    And just to clarify, I mean BCS National Championship when I said "So when was the last time a PAC 10 team PACed their luggage to go to BCS bowl and win it?"
    At least Ohio State went two years in a row!
    Go Big Ten!!!
  9. pantsmcpants1
    9. Posted by pantsmcpants1 Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:10 pm EDT

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    The Big Ten keeps getting 2 teams into the BCS, and has such great bowl alliances that we invariably end up with underdog bowl matchups...For example, where do the #2 and 3 Pac-10 teams go? The freaking Holiday Bowl? The Sun? Those are in December! Meanwhile, Ohio State is playing Texas in the BCS and losing on a last second TD, while Penn State gets to go to USC's home field for a real fair contest...
  10. Trader Kevin
    10. Posted by Trader Kevin Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:15 pm EDT

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    Arizona is 14-19 all-time against the Big Ten and 3-9 since Penn State joined the conference in 1993.
  11. Blueandwhite2009
    11. Posted by Blueandwhite2009 Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:16 pm EDT

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    How about unranked Penn State beating #14 Tennessee at Outback Bowl in 2007 - Penn State beating A&M at the Alamo in 2008, and Penn State taking care of Florida State in Orange Bowl in 2005. How about an unranked Michigan beating Florida Gators, in Florida, at Cap One in 2008, How about Ohio State making it to two back to back National Championships...
    People, get over it. Big Ten rocks!
  12. e80ohio
    12. Posted by e80ohio Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:28 pm EDT

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    i understand aaron is just baiting people, but really? from an arizona fan?
  13. firkind
    13. Posted by firkind Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:47 pm EDT

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    Yes, you are correct and the blogger is deluded, and a Big Ten bowl victory from January, 2005 proves it. The Big Ten does indeed rock, and all that foolishness about the Big Ten being perceived all over the country as a weak, and gradually becoming weaker, football conference must be imagination created via a mass hallucination. I admit I share the perception of the Big Ten as a Ho-Hum football conference, deluded by their own self-imposed grandeur, on par with the WAC. I am running, not walking, to my doctor to get an antidote to this poison. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy what I perceive to be good football, watching teams that do not think of Notre Dame as a Quality Opponent compete. Thank goodness someone is standing up to illuminate the truth.
  14. Blueandwhite2009
    14. Posted by Blueandwhite2009 Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:52 pm EDT

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    pantsmcpants, very good point about being poorly matched
    I am not going to sit here and deny that there have been some very good teams in last two years from the SEC, USC has been great, and even from the Big Twelve but, in 2007, middle of the Big Ten pack Wisconsin lost to SEC runner up Tennessee in a back and forth game by 3 points. In 08, unranked, lower Big Ten quartile Badgers were matched with Florida State who was competing for ACC championship. Michigan State kept it competitive with preseason number one Georgia, Ohio State - beaten and bruised - led national championship hopeful Texas until they missed one tackle... I can go on and on and on...
    But the point is, that our middle of the pack teams compete with top of the bracket teams from other conferences and still keep it close. I wonder what would happen if our weaker teams were matched with weaker teams from other conferences...
    Wow, more I think about this, more I realize how awesome the Big 10 is.
  15. D.N. Nation
    15. Posted by D.N. Nation Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:41 pm EDT

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    "A 4 loss Michigan team going to Florida to beat the Gators even though they were -4 in TOs was pretty spectacular"
    Florida '07 finished 5th in the SEC (3rd in the SEC East). So, um, whoop-de-doo.
  16. ess-eee-seee
    16. Posted by ess-eee-seee Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:50 pm EDT

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    Given that the MAC is a glorified 1-AA conference, there is a big difference between SEC and Big Ten scheduling. The SEC plays more OOC BCS and mid-level (CUSA/MWC/WAC) opponents than the Big Ten, and fewer true bottom feeders (Sun Belt/MAC/1-AA). More importantly, the SEC wins a lot more frequently than the Big Ten regardless of opposition.
    Sorcerrousa, should Michigan get bonus points for losing to a really good 1-AA?
  17. Blueandwhite2009
    17. Posted by Blueandwhite2009 Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:04 pm EDT

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    Upsets happen all the time. Michigan was not the first team to fall victim to a weaker opponent and it wont be the last one either. Michigan can certainly get all the bonus points for:
    Wins and championships
    Most wins with (872) in NCAA Division I-A football
    The most winning seasons (110)
    The most undefeated seasons in Division 1-A football (25)
    One of only three schools with a winning record against every Division 1-A conference.
    The 1901 Michigan Wolverines football team is the only undefeated, untied, and unscored-upon football team to also win the Rose Bowl without being scored upon.
    Attendance and television
    The largest crowd to ever attend an NCAA football game: 112,118 on November 22, 2003, at Michigan Stadium vs. Ohio State[3] Michigan was ranked #5 while Ohio State was ranked #4.
    The longest streak in home game attendance of over 100,000 (214 games - Nov. 8, 1975 v. Purdue)
    The most televised school in college football history (382 televised games)
    Current streaks
    The longest current streak of games in Division 1-A since last being shut out (287 games; last time on October 20, 1984, at Iowa).
    Honored pageantry
    The number one sports rivalry: Michigan-Ohio State, according to ESPN's "10 Greatest Sports Rivalries"
    The Victors is one of the few fight songs in the Hall of Fame
  18. Rob
    18. Posted by Rob Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:21 pm EDT

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    "Michael F" answered this well. I also like how some people in here seem to remember that Michigan beat Florida not even three years ago (the same michigan that lost to app state), that PSU beat both Texas A&M and Tennessee and Flordia State in the last four years (USC this past season was there only bowl loss since their re-emergence), OSU beat Miami for the championship in 2002, and teams like Iowa were beating LSU just as far back as 2003. Big-Ten haters truely do have an EXTREMELY selective memory, and it usually only applies to OSU during the past 3 years total. It's pretty ridiculous. I give Matt Hinton credit for writing an article about the big ten that doesnt completely bash them & buy into the SEC cool-aid...but at the same time...is this guy gay for Tim Tebow or what?!
  19. firkind
    19. Posted by firkind Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:25 pm EDT

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    The Big Ten was great at one time. Now they are not. By listing all of Michigan's past accomplishments, you are supporting the point of the author. Michigan was great at one time. Now they are not. What did you guys do to your conference?
  20. Matt H
    20. Posted by Matt H Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:45 pm EDT

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    Robert: Correct, sir. Post has been updated to include Michigan's win over Florida.
  21. glenn mullen
    21. Posted by glenn mullen Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:48 pm EDT

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    Delaney is so right this all goes around in a circle over the years. But, why dwell and rate the big ten because they didn't win one bowl game last year. Your visions to narrow. I live the Blue and White of Penn State Football. Everybody just wants to compare: well penn state beat oregan state and oregan state beat usc. You would have thought penn state would have killed usc. That is college football. that is what make it so great and enjoyable. anybody can win at any given time. I know some will disagree with me that penn state should have kill usc in the bowl game. You say penn state plays a weak schedule. I remeber a classic back in 1987 penn state 14 Miami 10. Thats right miami was supposed to kill penn state. College football, what a great sport!!!!
  22. glenn mullen
    22. Posted by glenn mullen Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:48 pm EDT

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    Delaney is so right this all goes around in a circle over the years. But, why dwell and rate the big ten because they didn't win one bowl game last year. Your visions to narrow. I live the Blue and White of Penn State Football. Everybody just wants to compare: well penn state beat oregan state and oregan state beat usc. You would have thought penn state would have killed usc. That is college football. that is what make it so great and enjoyable. anybody can win at any given time. I know some will disagree with me that penn state should have kill usc in the bowl game. You say penn state plays a weak schedule. I remeber a classic back in 1987 penn state 14 Miami 10. Thats right miami was supposed to kill penn state. College football, what a great sport!!!!
  23. John K
    23. Posted by John K Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:31 pm EDT

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    Yup... the Big Integer sure is awesome! I mean they really show those pesky MAC schools whose boss!
  24. John M.
    24. Posted by John M. Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:54 pm EDT

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    The Big Ten and Notre Dame has less problems with football players than the South and especially the PAC Ten. USC alone has more people slide through than almost all of the rest of the Pac Ten. There was OJ who took the line to Chasen's and the next year he gave them all diamond watches. The funny part he was driving sports car and his dad only netted $26,000 per year. In recently we have Reggie living in housing that the QB whose father bought for them and off campus, don't worry about the cars, they were leased.
    The NCAA is just a laundrey for alums, players, and croocked admininistrators. They have more money than the US Mint can issue per year. Something has to be done. A friend who played at Northwestern wrote a book called the One Hundred Yard Lie and he was spot on then and it is worse than it was twenty years ago. And you wonder why we have so many players who get in trouble to this day and the teams get them back on the field.

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