Tar Heels hold recent edge on rival Blue Devils

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CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (AP)—For years, everything Duke and North Carolina achieved—the conference championships, Final Four trips and national titles— has been connected in a back-and-forth game of one-upmanship.

These days the Tar Heels have the upper hand.

Since shortly after Roy Williams returned to his alma mater, the Tar Heels have outperformed Mike Krzyzewski’s Blue Devils in the long-running race between college basketball’s fiercest rivals. North Carolina has two NCAA championships in the five seasons since Duke last reached the Final Four. The Tar Heels have also dominated the recent series, including four straight wins at the Blue Devils’ Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Of course both sides say they focus on themselves, but they can’t ignore what’s going on a short drive down the U.S. 15-501 highway linking Chapel Hill and Durham, either. As North Carolina fifth-year senior Marcus Ginyard put it, “There’s no question we want to be better than them.”

“I think both programs have been very good for the other one,” Williams said. “We do what we want to do because we think it’s best, and Mike does for his program what they want to do because he thinks it’s best. But also, I do believe there is something where their success makes us want it a little more and our success perhaps makes them want it a little more.”

Right now, the Blue Devils are the ones left wanting.

North Carolina has won 86 percent of its games in the past five seasons, with two Atlantic Coast Conference titles, three Final Fours, and NCAA titles in 2005 and 2009. The Tar Heels have failed to reach the NCAA’s round of eight just once and are coming off a dominating NCAA run that ended with a romp over Michigan State in Detroit.

Things are rolling so well that North Carolina is ranked sixth despite losing four-year star Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Danny Green.

The ninth-ranked Blue Devils remain among the nation’s elite, yet haven’t had the same success as the Tar Heels—or past Duke teams under Krzyzewski, for that matter. They’ve won 80 percent of their games in that same span, but they haven’t advanced past the NCAA round of 16 and have twice been eliminated in the tournament’s opening weekend.

Last year, Duke won its third ACC championship in five seasons, but lost in the regional semifinals to Villanova by 23 points, its most lopsided NCAA exit since the 103-73 loss to UNLV in the 1990 final.

While most programs pray for the Blue Devils’ recent success, it just doesn’t feel quite, well, Duke-like. Krzyzewski has three NCAA titles in 29 seasons there, though the last of his 10 Final Fours came in 2004— coincidentally Williams’ first season in Chapel Hill.

Not to mention North Carolina has won six of the past seven meetings.

“As far as our motivation, we don’t need North Carolina or Maryland or anybody else to motivate us,” Krzyzewski said. “We’re motivated by trying to win a championship.

“Last year, Carolina had great team ego and great team talent. (When) you get that, that’s tough, that’s the ultimate. And we’ve had that here, so I understand how they feel. But it doesn’t last forever. And that’s why they play each season. They start it over and they don’t bring any records along with it.”

Krzyzewski has been on the other side, too.

His program pushed ahead of Dean Smith’s Tar Heels in the late 1980s with six Final Fours in seven seasons—including NCAA titles in 1991 and 1992—and three ACC crowns while the Tar Heels had two ACC titles and one Final Four trip.

It’s the ebb and flow of the rivalry, said Jay Bilas, an ESPN analyst and a player on Krzyzewski’s first Final Four squad in 1986. And neither program can afford to get caught up in comparisons.

“The thing in the Duke-Carolina rivalry is it’s inescapable,” Bilas said. “Whatever team wins, their fans get to crow and celebrate and have a good time, but the players have to get up and go to practice. They’ve got another game after that.

“Neither school has a banner hanging in their gym saying what their record is against the other. They don’t hang banners for that stuff.”

Recruiting explains some of the current gap. Williams has nabbed several players like one-and-done talents Marvin Williams and Brandan Wright, and eventual NBA first-round draft picks Lawson and Ellington, who stayed in school longer than many anticipated. Then there’s Hansbrough, who graduated as the ACC’s all-time leading scorer and North Carolina’s top rebounder.

The Blue Devils have also ranked highly with recruits like NBA lottery pick Gerald Henderson and junior Kyle Singler, the preseason ACC player of the year. But they’ve missed on key names like Kentucky’s John Wall and Patrick Patterson, and Georgetown’s Greg Monroe that could have provided a boost, while the NBA departures of Luol Deng after one season and preps-to-pros guard Shaun Livingston didn’t help, either.

“They’ve had good players in their classes,” Dave Telep, national recruiting director for Scout.com, said of Duke. “This is not nearly as much of a conversation if the guys eight miles down the road didn’t do some amazing things with their classes.

“Duke has hit a couple of solo home runs and North Carolina hit a couple of grand slams. Over the course of time, the runs add up.”

As for the players there now, they enter this season as co-favorites in the ACC. And what happens this year is what’s most important to Duke’s Jon Scheyer.

“I can only control what I’ve done since I’ve been here and obviously they’ve been more successful,” the senior said. “But like I said before, you want to beat them. That’s the main thing: to beat them the next year.”

AP Sports Writer Joedy McCreary in Durham contributed to this report.

Updated Nov 6, 4:36 pm EST
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23 Comments

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  1. Rab
    23. Posted by Rab Tue Nov 10 1:23am EST

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    Good point PMG...I'm not exactly sure why the academics aspect came up in a basketball article.

    But you are wrong in one aspect. Duke's academics do not suck in comparison to Princeton. Duke is an elite school in this country. No they aren't exactly on par with the top Ivy League schools, but the gap isn't overtly large.

    It's not like someone with a degree from Duke would be frowned upon by an Ivy Leaguer.
  2. PMG
    22. Posted by PMG Mon Nov 9 3:09pm EST

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    hey base101283 ,

    "why don't we scrap the athletic record of both teams and look at success of the students?"

    Because this is a basketball article, not the Princeton Review. Speaking of Princeton, Duke's academics sucks in comparison.
  3. <i>base101283</i>
    21. Posted by base101283 Mon Nov 9 12:45pm EST

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    First of all, to Scott. Thank you for your shining example of UNC's finest writing demonstration. While reading your crap I could not figure out if you were a 7th grader taking remedial english or if you had a B.A. from UNC in English. Both levels are the same so I guess it really doesn't matter.
    Secondly, why don't we scrap the athletic record of both teams and look at success of the students. Duke Grads make on average 12K a year more than UNC grads and THAT IS JUST WITH AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE!!!!!!! I wish you could see some of the job battles that i have seen in the last 5 years. I have seen more than 100 kids straight out of UNC's undergrad program walk through our door and say "I can't get a job." Duke grads don't have that problem. They are pretty much hired before they even graduate. If you compare the academic rigors of the two schools together you would find that Duke's Academic Programs beat UNC with ease. I think that with sports we are losing the true meaning of college. It is not who has the best basketball program. It is who produces the most students that become productive members of society.
  4. Chip L.
    20. Posted by Chip L. Sun Nov 8 9:02am EST

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    Carolina has one of the best (and most consistent) basketball programs in the country, despite the hiatus and the lackluster (for the lack of a better term) incurred by the team during post-Dean Smith and pre-Roy Williams. Don't get me wrong, I have so much respect for Guthridge and Doherty but their records say that they weren't at par with the former two (and their pro-bound athletes didn't do well either).

    But let's face it, the Heels own Fluke @$$. They're up there in terms of win-loss consistency (check Dean Smith's time) and has more than the number of national championship Fluke has. Forget about the number of Final Fours, Elite Eights, and NCAA Tournament appearances: THESE DON'T TELL JACK OF WHATHAVEYOU BETWEEN THE TWO SCHOOLS. It's about championships and games won against each other. And it's in here that UNC CLEARLY OWNS FLUKE ASS.

    END OF DISCUSSION!
  5. <i>speedo2sexy</i>
    19. Posted by speedo2sexy Sat Nov 7 6:45pm EST

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    North carolina soooooWhat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Duke will overtake you and be national champions again we have class you don't.
  6. Gary B
    18. Posted by Gary B Sat Nov 7 1:17pm EST

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    The real winner in the Duke- Carolina rivalry is the fans. A far as I am concerned this is the number one rivalry in all of sports. The intensity on the court and in the stands is unmatched. I grew up a Carolina fan
    but my son has converted me to a Duke fan and plans on attending Duke. I expect this year to be no different then most. I see them very evenly matched. I think Singler will be the difference. No matter who you pull for you have to love his intensity. He will be ACC player of the year. Any way I can't wait till game time. Go Duke!
  7. Jamie P
    17. Posted by Jamie P Sat Nov 7 12:25pm EST

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    With almost any rivalry you can slice a time period out of the head to head record that favors the inferior team. In this case dook.

    It all comes down to the whole pie though.

    All time head to head- UNC 129-dook 97

    NCAA Championships- UNC 5 - dook 3

    Game, set, match- UNC
  8. scott
    16. Posted by scott Sat Nov 7 11:12am EST

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    To post 10 ( kj7 ). Yes dookie has the advandage in the last 25 games but keep in mind we didnt have as good of a coach as DICK, I'm mean DUKE. Plus the way your coach keeps abandoning you to coach the DREAM team, We will even that gap soon enough! We had the players just no guidance. Now for the insulting part; Hansbrough. Freshman year he owned your Sheldon Williams ( I'm sure you've seen the poster they made of him ) ! And he did'nt have that boat load of talent you claim. As for waddeling out of CBB forever; I think not ; NCAA Record freethrows made - Record ACC Scoring Leader. Until someone else comes along and breaks it you have to hear about it. Now about them calls; Atleast we have never stooped SO LOW as to try to take a player out intentionaly. Gerald Henderson and Christian Latner and thats just against UNC. Your coach has made his career on crying till he gets his patiented touch fouls calles and his players are incoraged to act to get them. Atleast we can say we prepair our players for the next level. ( How many Duke players make it in the NBA? ) just getting drafted dont count as MAKING IT ! ! Need I say more?
  9. Mobius
    15. Posted by Mobius Sat Nov 7 10:27am EST

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    Did anyone notice that Coach K still has one more title than Coach W? Or that Coach W couldn't quite get that elusive title at Kansas but Bill Self did? Does that make Bill Self better than Coach W? Get real people. Good teams are good every year but nobody dominates now like UCLA used to. Florida came close with consecutive titles but they may never be heard from again. It is so much harder now to mold a team with all of the guys jumping to the NBA so soon. Root for your favorite team but show respect for both Coach K and Coach W. They both deserve it.
  10. Faye S
    14. Posted by Faye S Sat Nov 7 9:16am EST

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    I think Roy Williams tries to basketball a fun game and it helps his team.
  11. darlene c
    13. Posted by darlene c Sat Nov 7 8:55am EST

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    roy williams is a class act coach k is a little sissy ass cry baby that cant accept the fact that he cant beat roy williams . the only way coach k will be back on top is that roy retires and dont think thats going to happen so pull out the tissues for coach k
  12. DeaconNation
    12. Posted by DeaconNation Sat Nov 7 5:44am EST

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    JUST BE HONEST WITH URSELF HONESTLY HANSBROUGH DIDN'T GET HALF THE CALLS HE SHOULD HAVE. HE GOT HIT, PUNCHED SMACKED, SLAPPED, PUSHED, SHOVED, TRIPPED SO MANY TIMES THAT NO ONE EVER THOUGHT ABOUT CALLIN A FOUL. YEAH HE GOT MORE FT'S THAN ANYONE ELSE THAT'S BECAUSE HE PLAYED MORE PHYSICAL THAN ANYONE ELSE. HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT GETTIN HIT, BECAUSE THAT GOT HIS TEAM POINTS. HE WAS A MAN AMONG BOYS.



    10. Posted by kj7 Sat Nov 7 2:39am EST Report Abuse
    Just think Duke fans in a couple of months we won't hear anything out of these UNC fans. They will go back to being silent, as we go back to beating them like we have for the last 10 to 15 years minus what 2 or 3. UNC fans are so quick to forget that we have won like 18 of the last 25 times we have played them. And no more talk about Hansbrough that Duck waddled his way into the NBA and out of cbball forever, without all them calls he would have never got the scoring title and without all that talent on his teams he would have never won in cameron. And at least we've never been so disgraced to finish with a 8 win season and opening the year losing to a bunch of high school players (nike elite) so Syracuse don't feel so bad. Kansas is going to be a great team this year but next year they won't be talked about, and UK they're just a bomb waiting to explode and if they do win will only get stripped of it, so why waste your time talking about them. Calipari is a cheat and John Wall is the next Maurice Clarett!!!
  13. Evan
    11. Posted by Evan Sat Nov 7 4:05am EST

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    I love how all of these Duke fans are talking trash about the Tar Heels when we have owned them since Roy came back to coach UNC. It's almost as if they have forgotten about all those losses to UNC in recent years, it's almost as if they actually believe their program is better. I understand having hope in your team that they will win the championship at the end of the season but that's all that Duke fans have these days. It's going to be funny as hell when all you Duke fans go crawl back into a hole when Harrison Barnes chooses UNC and you realize that coach K just can't compete with Roy in recruiting. These kids don't want to go to Duke where they know they will get embarassed by UNC, they want to go to UNC so they can do the embarassing... oh yeah and win a national championship! lol

    Face it Duke fans your team SUCKS!
  14. kj7
    10. Posted by kj7 Sat Nov 7 2:39am EST

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    Just think Duke fans in a couple of months we won't hear anything out of these UNC fans. They will go back to being silent, as we go back to beating them like we have for the last 10 to 15 years minus what 2 or 3. UNC fans are so quick to forget that we have won like 18 of the last 25 times we have played them. And no more talk about Hansbrough that Duck waddled his way into the NBA and out of cbball forever, without all them calls he would have never got the scoring title and without all that talent on his teams he would have never won in cameron. And at least we've never been so disgraced to finish with a 8 win season and opening the year losing to a bunch of high school players (nike elite) so Syracuse don't feel so bad. Kansas is going to be a great team this year but next year they won't be talked about, and UK they're just a bomb waiting to explode and if they do win will only get stripped of it, so why waste your time talking about them. Calipari is a cheat and John Wall is the next Maurice Clarett!!!
  15. Lyoto Machida
    9. Posted by Lyoto Machida Sat Nov 7 1:43am EST

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    Say it with me guys: ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK KU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Neither of these teams will be able to hang with the sensational Jayhawks this year so go ahead and think about next season. I have a rude awakening for your ACC losers. There is a new rivalry in town which will boast the best men's college basketball teams for many years to come. KU vs UK. Just because the Kansas Jayhawks and the Kentucky Wildcats aren't in the same conference doesn't mean they can't have a nasty rivalry. Also, your prized recruit in Harrison Barnes isn't coming to the state of Carolina. Yep, you guessed it. Say it with me one more time so you have down for the Final Four this year: ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK KUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!
  16. <i>stungun25</i>
    8. Posted by stungun25 Sat Nov 7 12:46am EST

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    Even as a Tarheel fan, I think we may be overrated a little in the preseason polls right now. I went to the exhibition game earlier today and I have to say that I was quite disappointed in Henson. Our top 5 high school recruits over the past five years (Marvin, Tyler, Brandon, and Ed) have all made immediate impact on our team and Henson just isn't showing that talent level right now. Granted we played an exhibition game and it was our first time playing against competition, but he's got a ways to go in order to get in the starting lineup unfortunately. Strickland may end up starting at PG by the ACC season based on what I saw and the Wear twins look like they deserve some decent playing time. We don't have much time to get our act together before we take on probably 5 of the top 15 teams in the country in the next month or so. We should be ready by January to take the ACC title though.
  17. TIM S
    7. Posted by TIM S Fri Nov 6 11:12pm EST

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    As a diehard tarheel fan i must say i am loving wat roy williams is doing with the recruits. we lost talent and now we may actually be deeper in talent. as far as all those haters like no 5 david when u address tyler hansborough do it with respect hes the all time leader in scoring in the acc, hes also a player who was undefeated in cameron four years and hes also a national champ so recognize that,no5. dont get upset because coach k would rather coach the dream team than the sorry non althltic blue devils.
  18. JamesA
    6. Posted by JamesA Fri Nov 6 11:02pm EST

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    Both schools are terrific! This is the talk of the ACC. Every year no matter who is on the roster these teams gear up to play each other! I am a die hard UNC fan but love the ACC all together!
  19. David
    5. Posted by David Fri Nov 6 10:54pm EST

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    This rivalry ebbs and flow. Dean arrived at UNC before K arrived at Duke so UNC has the overall lead in statistics. The issues of late date back to to the class 2005 and 2006 incoming classes. UNC's panned out better than Dukes so the last couple of years UNC has had more success. Of course no team has won more games over the last 10 years than the Blue Devils. Both teams are loaded this year with young talent. It'll be interesting to see how Duke plays with more size and without G!. The three S's will really need to step up. It will also be interesting to see how UNC plays without Lawson or Felton as they run an offense that really shines when a penetrating PG shines. It'll also be interesting to see how UNC plays without Hansblahblah and his referees. I know all ACC fans are looking forward to that (well, except the UNC fans). It is a shame that UNC fans are the way they are because their program is run quite well and would be fun to watch and support otherwise. I know that'll be an unpopular statement but I live right by UNC and I call 'em as I see 'em. On another note, it's a shame that NC State hasn't been able to raise it's level of play such that it could be included. I'd really like to see that. It would raise basketball in the area to the next level (and we already have it better than anyone in the country). 9F
  20. Bobby B
    4. Posted by Bobby B Fri Nov 6 9:31pm EST

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    They hold the all time lead in everything.Duh!
  21. Josh C
    3. Posted by Josh C Fri Nov 6 6:18pm EST

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    Can't wait to see these Heels in action.

    Drew may not have Lawson's speed, but he has better court vision and can make some highlight-reel passes. For whatever they lose in the fast break, Drew will help them in the half court. Plus he can pass it down court, and with runners like Thompson, Zeller and Henson, they'll have guys who can break ahead and finish.

    And that front line is going to be ridiculous! With Henson at the wing and Ginyard at 2, this is going to be a BIG lineup.
  22. <i>poetisnow</i>
    2. Posted by poetisnow Fri Nov 6 5:59pm EST

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    This will be an interesting season for both teams. Duke lost its best athlete with Henderson's departure, while my Heels lost almost the whole team. The Blue Devils need to develop a better post presence, and UNC must have some guard - be it Drew II or Strickland or whoever - step up to replace Lawson and Ellington, for as much as they will miss Psycho they have ability down low. It should be fun, if a bit nerve-wracking.
  23. Ariel L.
    1. Posted by Ariel L. Fri Nov 6 5:20pm EST

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    Who's duke?
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